黑料门

Hosts Jesse and Rich talk to Matt and Joe from the Hustle and Flowchart Podcast to uncover ways to get visitors to your new store.

Transcript

Jesse: Richie, how鈥檚 it going man?

Richard: What鈥檚 happening? Living the dream, it鈥檚 the Friday happy hour again. We鈥檙e ready.

Jesse: You know, when we started this podcast, we always said that the idea of it would be like “Hey, if we could meet our friends at happy hour and talk about what they should do for their business. That鈥檚 what we want to do.” So we did that today.

Richard: Yeah, we left a little early. We should鈥檝e taken the mobile unit (laughing) but we got to make sure we still get the thought process through. So these people actually understand and get help.

Jesse: So, let鈥檚 bring in our guests. This is Matt and Joe from the Hustle and Flowchart Podcast. How鈥檚 it going, guys?

Joe: Awesome. Thanks for having us.

Jesse: Absolutely, yes.

Richard: You鈥檝e been in the game for a while, right?

Joe: We have. What鈥檚 the year, Matt?

Matt: 2007 is when we actually served together.

Jesse: He said he鈥檚 the guy with the facts.

Richard: He being Matt since we鈥檙e not on a video right now. And Joe鈥檚 like me, we鈥檙e more of the creatives. I say you鈥檝e been in it for a while but most of the 黑料门 listeners are e-commerce people. Majority of your income in your business you鈥檙e doing is via information and affiliates though. But there鈥檚 still a lot of information that e-commerce people can learn from you. And that鈥檚 one of the reasons we want to bring you in. When you go to IRS or any of the traditional e-commerce conferences, it鈥檚 heavy on software, heavy on how things work. And we disappointed you guys for multiple reasons not just because you like a happy hour too but you鈥檙e great at driving traffic and you have a specific kind of ritual you follow or structure system that you follow. How did this evolve? Give us a little bit of a history of how did you get into it first and then we鈥檒l slowly bring into how we could help 黑料门 customers follow some of your lessons learned.

Joe: Matt and I have worked together in a variety of different ways online. So many different business models, we say we鈥檝e tested it all. I know that鈥檚 not possible but we tested a lot of different styles of offers, ways that we drive traffic, ways that we just upsell folks into getting a higher LTV. We take all that now. We just chose personally to go to the info route and also a lot of affiliate marketing and some other stuff. But either way, same stuff applies to what we鈥檙e doing.

Matt: You still need traffic.

Joe: Exactly. If you can鈥檛 control eyeballs and the attention and actually can direct that attention to something that鈥檚 relevant to them and something that you control, then you can pretty much do anything you want. You could sell anything online.

Richard: Correct me if I鈥檓 wrong but it seems like you鈥檝e kind of dove in on the two most important ways to make that happen, which is organic content creation and then paid. Is this the two main鈥� because you do a podcast and if I remember correctly I think when we talked a little before you actually are one of the few people that drive heavy traffic to your podcast. I thought about that for a while. Thirteen years of television and film. I was like “If you鈥檙e a media company, you drive paid traffic, you don鈥檛 just walk in the Star Wars”, right. You鈥檝e seen 17 rap buses, 32 commercials, radio commercial.

Joe: You can make an amazing film. My wife and I met with the big Hollywood producer for films on Monday, and they said straight up like there are so many people that hire them hundreds of thousands of dollars and don鈥檛 have any marketing plan behind it. And it drives him nuts because we鈥檒l spend half a year making this thing and it gets like 5000 views, or some blow up to millions because there鈥檚 actually some marketing thought behind it. That goes with any business. It鈥檚 just crazy to not think of the strategy, “OK, how do we get relevant eyeballs as much as any eyeballs but ones that want to take an action based off of what I鈥檓 putting out to the world.”

Richard: So when you start the process, what鈥檚 step one? Step one is just an awareness campaign or what?

Matt: Step one would really be research. We use tools like Ahrefs and SEMrush, SEO tools to figure out what keywords people are searching for, that relate to the business that we鈥檙e in, the products that we鈥檙e going to sell. So, we鈥檒l find keywords and figure out: okay, these are keywords that are buyer intent keywords. These are keywords that people would search for that are clearly interested in our niche, in the products that we would potentially sell. So that鈥檚 really phase one, it is really spending a lot of time doing research into what your customers would be searching for. And I think that鈥檚 a step that so many businesses just want to skip over, they just want to take a product, throw it online, and if we build it, they will come, but we all know that鈥檚 not the case you need to do some marketing. And the first step of marketing is really good research on keywords.

Richard: Okay. When you鈥檙e saying鈥� the tools you mentioned, there鈥檚 like free version you could probably type in stuff before 黑料门 users for the most part getting started, ramping up. You guys have been in the game for a while. So even one of the comments earlier when you were talking about LTV, lifetime value of a customer, for those out there wondering whether LTV was. So you start with research. Are you kind of reverse engineering based on a goal, how do you鈥� let鈥檚 just pick one of your products you have.

Joe: It could be our traffic course, it鈥檚 a $300 product. With that, we know what the value of a lead is for our list. So then we can back that and that鈥檚 obviously historical data. But with that number in mind, we know what we can spend to acquire traffic of new people into our ecosystem. This kind of like a moat that we built around our content or course, all of our offers.

Richard: So you know like “our course is this much, so we鈥檙e willing to spend up to this much.” Now you start doing research on words that you think have buyers intent.

Joe: For going all the way back to the very very basics like somebody who鈥檚 a beginner you鈥檙e probably not going to really know what the lifetime value of a customer is from day one. So the best you can really do is kind of start to figure out what things people are searching for that relate to your product. There鈥檚 going to be some trial and error in the beginning. What we do is I don鈥檛 want to get too into the weeds but we have sort of like algorithms and numbers that we look at to figure out: “Okay, this gets a lot of searches but there鈥檚 also very low competition in Google so this is probably a good keyword to go after.” And then we find a whole bunch of those keywords, go after them, create content around them, and that鈥檚 sort of the first entry point to them discovering our business.

Jesse: I think what you said there about the knowing the LTV the product or the customer maybe for a lot of e-commerce businesses they鈥檙e starting out. Yeah, they鈥檙e not going to know the LTV but they are going to probably be able to figure out the profit margin of that particular product. So that鈥檚 assuming they only buy once, that鈥檚 your LTV. That鈥檚 a good starting point. Like if you sell a $25 product it cost you ten dollars to acquire it. There are only $15 of margin there, so you don鈥檛 have a whole lot of money to play with. You can spend essentially we鈥檒l call it up to $15 to acquire that customer. Debatable whether it鈥檚 $15 or $14. But that鈥檚 the start of what you can and what you can pay to acquire a customer, so you guys have got a little more dialed in.

Joe: So that鈥檚 super important because in our courses we train on this a lot. That鈥檚 like our number one question when it comes to e-commerce: “Oh, does this work for e-commerce lately?” Yes, but鈥� profit margin.

Jesse: If you sell a boat and it鈥檚 $25,000, you have several thousand dollars to play. If you sell a toy boat, that鈥檚 twenty-five dollars.

Joe: Shipped from AliExpress.

Jesse: They might have four dollars to play with. You can only spend four dollars to acquire that customer.

Matt: E-commerce isn鈥檛 one of the big things people are going for is average cart value, right. Not necessarily the value of the one product but they want to add multiple prices to the cart. Once you鈥檙e a buyer, they want you on the email list, they can sell your future products. So in that scenario, I think you should be willing to break even on your head spent in the beginning. Breakeven because you can optimize the average cart value. You can optimize for future sales. The backend stuff is where the real money comes. With advertising, I think you should be willing to break even on that front end.

Jesse: I agree. I think people should pull over and write that one down. You should probably be willing to spend up to the profit margin on your first sale because yes, generally that product is, there on your email list you can sell it to them again. I鈥檓 sure there are a few products where it鈥檚 one time, I don鈥檛 know but鈥�

Richard: Generally, we鈥檝e been in this game long enough to know, I don鈥檛 know Brian Dyes, Dan Kennedy, probably prior to Dan Kennedy, he who鈥檚 willing and able to spend the most, to acquire the customer, and wait the longest to acquire the check is going to win. That鈥檚 why ExxonMobil is going to dwarf everybody for a long time. Any new players and you need infrastructures built out, they can wait years and years and years and years to collect that check and they鈥檙e willing to spend way more than everyone else. Doesn鈥檛 mean they want to. I didn鈥檛 say they did, but they鈥檙e willing and able to.

Joe: Right. And I think a lot of folks, I don鈥檛 know if that鈥檚 the case in all business. From what we鈥檝e noticed, from our experience, most people are concerned on that front end product like that is where they鈥檙e going to make their big money. That鈥檚 how the business is made but that鈥檚 total B.S. You know it鈥檚 everything on the back end. So any kind of upsells or maybe a new bundle you can give them or a special offer. It鈥檚 way cheaper, stats have shown all throughout the test of time like you said that it鈥檚 way more expensive to acquire new customer rather than just LTE the ones you already got on your list.

Richard: You already got their trust, you got the credit card once. I mean isn鈥檛 there a little company out there called Amazon.

Matt: I was literally going to bring up Amazon. Didn鈥檛 they just become profitable like a year ago? That鈥檚 like 20 years or something.

Richard: But now they own the infrastructure of almost everything.

Jesse: And they are going to be extremely profitable in the next few years. So they took their time but they鈥檙e going to make their money and much like e-commerce owners need to think the same way. Maybe that first sale, maybe you don鈥檛 make anything. There鈥檚 a case to be losing money on that first sale particularly if you know that product can be resold or there鈥檚 upsell products, related products, etc. that can be sold because they鈥檝e now bought from you, they鈥檙e on your email list. They鈥檙e part of your ecosystem, they鈥檙e going to buy from you again. More likely percentage will sell. So I think that the conversation about LTV is really important for new store owners to think about this year. There鈥檚 lifetime value of that customer.

Matt: For us our biggest KPI or best Key Performance Indicator is our leads, our list growth because we鈥檝e done the math and it will take some time to figure out this math but we鈥檝e done the math and we know that somebody joining our list is worth thirty-four dollars to us. So, one person, this is not a buyer. This is one person on our mailing list is worth 34 dollars to us over the lifetime of that person being a lead on our list. So our only key performance indicator that we鈥檙e really focused on is how do we acquire as many leads on to our list as possible for under 34 dollars.

Richard: 33 and under here you go, hope for the $1 ones. But you鈥檙e okay with even the $30 one whatever as long as you as you know.

Matt: I mean if we find one where we can get $1 leads unless we鈥檙e going to try to pump as much money into that as possible and probably a little less on the ones that are giving us $30 leads, but yeah.

Richard: Let鈥檚 go back now. Say someone starting and we鈥檙e talking to you mostly about traffic and we鈥檙e going to go a little bit into the conversion. But we鈥檝e already discerned that there鈥檚 content creation, organic, ongoing and paid kind of prime the pump right and need the little windshield here. So is there some sort of ratio that you would recommend for someone in the beginning? Where it鈥檚 like a certain percentage of the products profit margin that you put towards this or would you recommend starting with content creation? It鈥檚 kind of open-ended questions. It could go either way. Do you recommend paid in the beginning and then now you know what works and you make content around the page. Or do you recommend creating content, seeing what content works and driving hate towards that?

Joe: I think it depends. It鈥檚 a total it鈥檚 on what you have to spend. So what鈥檚 your budget? Do you have some runway before you can make that initial sell, so you can have more extra time to test? I mean that鈥檚 what Amazon essentially did for however many years. They had a lot of runway investors obviously but if you are scrounging for cash and you want to get something working quickly, figure out how to probably pony up a couple hundred bucks and you can get some decent testing to figure out what people are searching for on Google and then pair that up with some strategic content and then give them an offer.

Matt: So you can start running paid ads for as little as five bucks a day and if you鈥檙e not willing to spend five bucks a day to get your business up and running then you know keep work of the day job for a little bit till you get some funds to do it, because you know no risk, no reward, but five bucks a day you should be able to do that or you don鈥檛 really have much of a business.

Richard: Well, that in and of itself is good to know. I鈥檓 sure there鈥檚 a lot of people that don鈥檛 realize you can set up the parameters. OK, Facebook, Google, whatever, it may or may not work. We don鈥檛 know that part yet but only spend this much. And so that鈥檚 good for these people, Jesse and I know that.

Jesse: Yeah, I think that鈥檚 helpful. I think a lot of times at 黑料门 when people cancel, we see the reasons for the downgrade. We鈥檇 read every single one of them and a lot of times it鈥檚 there鈥檚 a concern with cost or “I don鈥檛 have money to run ads.” Well, if you don鈥檛 have money to run ads like it鈥檚 going to be tough. That is sort of an “I don鈥檛 know if I鈥檇 call it a requirement” but practically a requirement, if you don鈥檛 have $5 a day, what did you expect? There are many other ways. There鈥檚 like 10 percent of the people out there that might be able to find a way but let鈥檚 be honest. Usually, you should spend five dollars a day at least figuring out your business.

Joe: People feel like now with a lot of products you see Instagram and you have these influencers and you are like “Oh, I鈥檓 just going to pair up with an influencer and they鈥檙e going to make me rich.” I mean it can. It鈥檚 possible. So I would love to have control over my outcome, my life, and my income. And you could do that with paid ads.

Jesse: If your only chance of making it is that some famous person is going to鈥� That鈥檚 not really a plan, that鈥檚 a hope.

Joe: You鈥檙e still paying them.

Matt: There鈥檙e really two sorts of philosophies behind traffic. There is that you can go free but it鈥檚 kind of more of a marathon. You can go paid and it鈥檚 kind of more of a sprint. All right. So you can go the content route and just focus purely on content and go after SEO and get Google to rank you and create YouTube videos and get those ranking but that鈥檚 going to be a slow long road. I would so much rather invest five dollars a day and just kickstart things. And SEO will happen too. That marathon element will still happen over time. But you can sort of jumpstart it and start getting into profitability within your first 30 days business if you are willing to spend a little money to get going.

Richard: And you鈥檝e got a bigger sample set to your point right. You鈥檝e got to wait a long time to get the sample set up the other way. Whereas now you can say: “OK, we all think we鈥檙e really smart” and we can make educated guesses but that data is going to tell us when we put that $5 out there be like “Oh, no, I guess it鈥檚 not a good ad” or “That is a good ad.” So do you break it down in layers? Do you have like an awareness campaign? I know you said it varies a little bit but in your particular case do you鈥� in this world where people are trying to get rid of friction like Ubers and all this stuff I鈥檝e found in certain circumstances adding layers of the funnel works. And we started to talk about it when we were having lunch but didn鈥檛 really totally get into it. Do you see a benefit in breaking that in the different segments and segmenting your audience and how could someone on 黑料门 learn from that lesson in this podcast?

Matt:
Yes. We have three buckets that we put leads and we鈥檝e got top of the funnel, middle of funnel and bottom of the funnel. The top of funnel leads, those are the people that don鈥檛 know who we are. These are the completely cold audiences, people who have never discovered us. We鈥檙e showing our top of funnel ads to them. Middle of funnel ads or people that have done some sort of engagement with us, maybe they viewed one of our blog posts, maybe they watched 25 percent or more of our videos on Facebook. They鈥檝e interacted like something on our fan page, some sort of interaction. That鈥檚 our middle of the funnel. And the bottom of the funnel is we鈥檙e driving these people straight to the offer because they鈥檝e interacted with us multiple times now, and we鈥檝e found that to be sort of the most effective sort of advertising funnel. I guess you can call it.

Jesse: That鈥檚 interesting. And I鈥檓 familiar with funnels but I think to break it down, to be more specific to people that maybe just heard cold traffic and top of the funnel for the first time. So the top of the funnel is what does the ad say, right?

Matt: Here鈥檚 the thing, when we build this kind of stuff, we actually build it from the bottom of the funnel up. So if you鈥檙e just starting this is day 1 trying to drive traffic for you, what you would do is you go create bottom-up funnel ads meaning ads that are just driving people straight to your offer. That鈥檚 it. Buy now. Buy now. Go to our sales page. That鈥檚 the bottom of a funnel, you build that first. And that鈥檚 for us purely 100 percent retargeting. There鈥檚 no cold traffic going to that, that鈥檚 only people who have viewed our content, viewed our fan page, interacted multiple times. That is bottom of the funnel, build that first, it鈥檚 going to be sort of a slow trickle because you may not have enough traffic go into your stuff in the beginning but that鈥檚 kind of how you start.

Jesse:
And for e-commerce people listening, that鈥檚 going to be your usually dynamic retargeting where these people saw this particular product and now on Facebook and Google we鈥檙e going to show them that exact product. There鈥檚 the price right next to it, they just seem to click through and buy. There are automated ways to do that through 黑料门, check the market, plug-plug. All right. So that makes sense for the bottom funnel. What would a mid-funnel look like?

Matt: So mid-funnel is going to be more sort of a blend of educational but also soft pitches. Maybe your middle of funnel ads might just be video ads on Facebook that don鈥檛 even take them off of Facebook. It鈥檚 just a video that鈥檚 “Hey, this is a really cool product that does X, ,Y and Z.” There鈥檚 some educational to it but there鈥檚 a little bit of a soft pitch at the end like “Here鈥檚 where you can go get it.” And anybody who watches 25-50 percent of those videos that watch is a good chunk of it. Then they start seeing your bottom a funnel, and you set up your retargeting, so anybody who鈥檚 watching past a certain percentage then sees those ads that you set up prior. That鈥檚 where the middle of funnel lies is that blend of education plus a little bit of a pinch of the product.

Jesse: Maybe they buy and you really want them to buy but you鈥檙e not pushing that necessarily.

Joe: Hint. It鈥檚 like they鈥檙e going to constantly see these calls to action, these offers that are available to them.

Jesse: More education. OK.

Matt: And then if we鈥檙e going over the top of the funnel, this is where you鈥檙e driving completely cold audiences to your advertising. This would be if you鈥檝e already got some customers, you can do what鈥檚 called a Lookalike audience on Facebook. Basically tell Facebook: “These are what my customers look like, go find people that have a lot of similarities to these people. Put my ads in front of them.” If you have your gurus in your industry or you have really popular software products in your industry, you can target people who are fans of those gurus or those software products. There are people that haven鈥檛 quite discovered you yet and those ones you鈥檙e driving to straight content. You鈥檙e driving those people just to “Here鈥檚 just something educational”, that鈥檚 in the realm of where you鈥檙e trying to lead them down the funnel two.

Jesse: Got it. So you might lead them to a blog post that you wrote. Super informative video on Facebook or YouTube. You know basically very educational, really no call to action necessarily.

Richard: Or a podcast.

Matt: Without getting too much in the weeds, we鈥檇 like to keep people on Facebook for that type of funnel so that cold traffic we like, you just put content videos in front of them because Facebook really wants to get people watching videos on Facebook. They really want people to stay on Facebook, so we can go and get 3 cent video views. And so for three cents we鈥檙e adding people to our middle of funnel audience. So every time somebody watches a video for 10 seconds or 25 percent or whatever we set our criteria at, we may play three seconds for that person and now we鈥檝e just essentially pixel somebody into our middle of the funnel for three cents a person.

Richard: Which kind of goes back to the earlier conversation. You鈥檙e willing and able to spend more and you鈥檙e willing to wait longer. You are saying an interpretation and correct me if I鈥檓 wrong, you pay three cents and you didn鈥檛 even give them the opportunity to buy anything. You didn鈥檛 send them anywhere, you didn鈥檛 do anything. Your three cents for that. Let鈥檚 just go back in time and pretend our grandpa is talking like this 5 to 10 touch points. Back then you鈥檇 send snail mail and go knock on the door and cold call and do all those stuff but instead, you鈥檙e saying because you know, I can鈥檛 remember exactly thirty-four dollars. I think he said it was three cents of it is to get that to the middle funnel. And then there鈥檚 going to be some number, the 50 cents to five dollars whatever the thing is and you鈥檙e just going to make sure by the time they get to that bottom it鈥檚 under the thirty-four dollars.

Matt: On average when we look at our numbers, on average it cost us four dollars to get somebody on our list, we make on average 34 dollars per person who鈥檚 on our list. So that鈥檚 kind of where stats are at right now.

Joe: And it鈥檚 so difficult to get that mentality straight when you鈥檙e at least when you鈥檙e starting out even just the first time it adds. You might be in business for a while but you鈥檝e done something else that might have been quicker. Yeah. So for us, it takes about 14 days or so to get that first conversion. For some companies, it might take three months. But you have to figure out what that kind of average is and then stick to it. It鈥檚 boring and it can be very scary sometimes. Like putting out this money and not seeing a return.

Jesse: You have to make these videos that you like “Man!” A lot of people watch these, we paid three cents apiece for them but nobody bought it. Well, you got to move to your middle of the funnel video.

Matt: At the end of the month, we just look at the aggregate data. We go: “OK, how much do we spend on advertising? How many leads did we get off of all of this spend and how much money did we make off of all of this spend?” And at the end of the day, all that matters is how much we spend is less than how much we made the number.

Richard: Yeah, and I totally joke to your point when you said it鈥檚 hard to get past that mentality. Sometimes you鈥檝e got to make something almost exaggerate the other way to make sense. Would the restaurant we just went to for lunch, would they have paid three cents to get to talk to us for a few seconds to tell us about what鈥檚 gone on inside the restaurant? I guess so. But it just seems so counterintuitive that we鈥檙e going to wait. We鈥檙e going to do this thing and we鈥檙e not going to let them. We鈥檙e not going to confuse them.

Matt: Well, think about the sign holders that鈥檚 just an awareness thing. I鈥檓 just thinking of literally looking at the restaurant right back down. But think of a sign holder, it鈥檚 an awareness thing. All you鈥檙e doing is just like you have the sea of people that are kind of targeted because they鈥檙e in your geographic area. So they鈥檙e interested. I mean maybe not interested. At least they鈥檙e kind of relevant.

Joe: And that鈥檚 all you鈥檙e dealing with keywords and all these.

Matt: Think about other things like billboards when you鈥檙e driving down the freeway. I have no clue how many eyeballs see a specific billboard when you鈥檙e driving down the freeway but I guarantee that the people that are driving down the freeway looking at that billboard 100 percent of them aren鈥檛 entrepreneurs between the ages of 25 and 45 that like Success magazine. With Facebook and advertising and Google and all of these platforms you have that ability to say “Look, I鈥檓 going to put out this brand awareness campaign but I鈥檓 only going to show it to these people that meet these criteria.” And you don鈥檛 get that with almost any other sort of traditional branding strategy in the real world outside of Internet marketing.

Jesse: Facebook is amazing for that if you know your product pretty well and you know if you鈥檙e new you might not know your customers exactly but you can kind of have a good idea. If you sell dog treats, organic dog treats you can start to develop the persona of your person out there and you can target them very specifically.

Matt: I can leverage other brands that are doing it well and then put something similar or an alternative. We do that all the time with affiliate products but that鈥檚 a kind of a shortcut to get in front of an audience that鈥檚 pretty damn relevant.

Jesse: We like the shortcuts, feel free. But we do the hard way here.

Richard: Speaking of shortcuts when someone鈥檚 doing an ad like this and it鈥檚 just an awareness one, should they be super concerned with picking the exact right audience in this custom audience? Or should they just leave it wide open and let Facebook do the do the work?

Matt: I would say early on you don鈥檛 really want to trust too much on Facebook to do the work for you because the way it works. You鈥檙e going to put what鈥檚 called a conversion pixel on your success page. So when somebody buys it sends data back to Facebook and says “Look, this person just bought”.

Jesse: By the way, let me jump in here. So this is I want all the 黑料门 users to know this is super easy, ask support, go to a live chat. There is a place where you just grab your pixel when you pop it in one place in Eciwid and it populates all the right places. Do not be afraid of like “They said pixel, I don鈥檛 do what to do”. No. So it鈥檚 very easy. And not enough people do it. You must put that pixel in there. It鈥檚 free.

Matt: It blows my mind whenever there鈥檚 no pixel because we have all these pixel helper things, and they are not even pixeling people. Oh my God!

Jesse: I didn鈥檛 want to interrupt you guys, get your pixel on there.

Matt: Definitely. So you鈥檝e got your conversion page which if you have your pixel installed, you can tell Facebook: “Look, if somebody lands on this particular page that means a sale just happened.” So Google and Facebook they鈥檙e not going to really be able to optimize towards that conversion until it has a lot of data to work off. So when you鈥檙e kind of early on and let鈥檚 say you make maybe a sale or two a day or even like a sale a day or a sale every other day that鈥檚 not really enough data for Google or Facebook to work off to optimize towards so you are going to want to start with “Here鈥檚 some cold audiences that I鈥檓 going to target and I鈥檓 going to go after these first.” That will help build out the data on the pixel as Facebook learns more off of the sales that are happening, then you can back off the targeting a little bit. And Facebook will start to figure it out for you.

Richard: Got to end or if you have had a bunch of sales and your upload your client list and say: “Does it look like the audience?”

Matt: You could. Google basically just set a new rule where you can鈥檛 do that unless you鈥檙e doing a minimum of fifty thousand dollars in sales a month or 50000 on ad spending. They put some severe limits on it to smaller businesses on Google. I think you can still do it on Facebook but I think Facebook is even sort of backing away from it with all security privacy issues they鈥檝e been running into. They鈥檙e kind of shying away from letting people upload their list and then targeting them a little bit more.

Jesse: It is tougher on the uploading but if you can match a page that they visited then you鈥檙e in business. So it鈥檚 really the same thing. But Facebook and Google are more open to if you say they visited this page than you can do lookalikes against a page. So that鈥檚 sort of the tweak there I鈥檝e actually had to redo some things because of that it鈥檚 annoying. But be aware. I think the key though is once you start selling, maybe it鈥檚 50 a month, 100 a month. That鈥檚 usually somewhere along there is the kind of the I don鈥檛 know the golden number. You need to get there to let the algorithms do their magic. Getting there, you know.

Joe: We have some strategies of ways to figure out what keywords people are searching for, and you got to invest in that but if you could figure out a data from Google, for instance, that鈥檚 kind of a good starting point that we like to go for instead of Facebook because it鈥檚 very intent on a solution rather than Facebook just browsing, checking out what friends or family are doing.

Jesse: Totally agree, particularly for e-commerce store owners. You know the name of the product and you know if they tape the name of your product and buy or name of the product near me or where you will find it. Those are high intent keywords, Facebook doesn鈥檛 have that kind of data, they might be taking the next level beyond that but yeah I agree, I鈥檓 more of a Google guy on e-commerce.

Matt: That鈥檚 why we lead with Google actually, for that exact reason is that you can鈥檛 go for those buyer intent keywords. We鈥檝e kind of spent a lot of time talking about Facebook but we鈥檙e actually bigger fan boys of Google Advertising. Basically because of that whole buyer intent element of it, we鈥檙e going after people that are searching for the keywords that are clearly鈥� They鈥檙e looking to buy products and then once they visit our website now we retarget them on Google and because of how we build all audiences on Facebook they鈥檙e going to see us on Facebook.

Jesse: So using Google you know that the person is definitely interested, they get to your page, and this applies for all types of websites, they get to your page and of course with carts and that we know actually like ninety-six percent or so鈥�

Joe: I thought it wasn鈥檛 that high, thought it was like eighty.

Jesse: Super high. You probably are paid to get them there, now they didn鈥檛 buy but that the bottom now, they are interested in that product, they probably typed in those particular keywords now you should be showing them things on Facebook. It鈥檚 definitely an important thing to be aware of.

Joe: I think the big realization that most people don鈥檛 think about is they need to either be Facebook or Google, or Instagram, or Pinterest, or whatever the platform they鈥檙e on. If you can figure out how to combine these things into you being the hub for Google, that鈥檚 the first step for us. We don鈥檛 know that, that鈥檚 the strategic way we could put content and an ad, pair those two together to a very targeted eyeball, and then pull them into, guide them into our ecosystem, where we鈥檙e targeting with Google ad banners on blogs, on Facebook, on Twitter.

Richard: So speaking of bringing them to your ecosystems it鈥檚 about that time, and you said you had some form of a gift or something, so they can get two things, they can get this gift, and then they can watch the process of being retargeted.

Joe: It is a learning in progress.

Jesse: Do I get thirty-four bucks or鈥� How this works?

锘�Richard: So we only got a little bit here, where should we go?

Matt: Evergreenprofits.com/ecwid. Evergreenprofits.com is our bigger umbrella brand, that鈥檚 where you can find our podcasts, all that sort of thing. If you go to Evergreenprofits.com/ecwid, will give you a free copy of our traffic book that cells in stores right now.

Joe: There鈥檚 a lot of stuff and detail.

Jesse: And if they like listening to your voices, where they can go to hear more from you?

Joe: Evergreenprofits.com锘� or HustleandFlowchart.com, that鈥檚 the name of our podcast.

Jesse: You鈥檒l be in the ecosystem, you could be targeted, you鈥檙e to see top funnel, bottom funnel.

Joe: Ideally, the bottom funnel. It鈥檚 just learning thing. It鈥檚 been fun.

Jesse: well guys, it鈥檚 been great having you, Rich, any last thoughts?

Richard: No, I鈥檝e just been wondering if we got finished soon enough that we would be able to get back over to the restaurant.

锘�Jesse: Friday happy hour guys, that鈥檚 why we鈥檙e doing it. Make it happen!