黑料门

Jesse and Rich chat about chatbots with Nick Julia the founder of MindHeros.com specifically about chatbots in e-commerce.

• Chatbot vs. Livechat
• Lead Acquisition
• Customer Support
• Post Purchase Follow-Up
• Facebook Messenger Ads

Jesse: Happy Friday, Rich.

Richard: The day it鈥檚 back. We鈥檙e here, the podcast day.

Jesse: It鈥檚 Friday podcast day, wherever people are listening. Maybe it鈥檚 Friday. Maybe it鈥檚 not.

Richard: Maybe Wednesday, maybe Monday, Thursday night. But just think of Friday.

Jesse: So we鈥檙e in our Friday mode, everybody. And today we鈥檙e very excited. I think if I was starting over on the Internet world, didn鈥檛 already have a job, didn鈥檛 already have websites and stuff, I think I鈥檇 probably fashion myself into a chatbot consultant. Try to add chatbots to different businesses and sites because I think there鈥檚 just a huge opportunity there. I really wish I had more time to focus on it because I see it but I鈥檇 run out of time every day. So maybe today if anyone else out there got that same feeling of like “I keep hearing about chatbots, I really want to learn more.” That鈥檚 why we brought on the guest today. Let鈥檚 bring on our guest Nick Julia from MindHeros. How is it going, Nick?

Nick: Hey, thanks guys.

Richard: Good to have you on. I鈥檓 super excited too. Just like Jesse, I鈥檓 super intrigued with chatbots but I also love the world of voice and I find them very similar because really it鈥檚 just conversational commerce, conversational marketing. I鈥檓 really looking forward to picking your brain and hearing more about your insights. It sounds like you鈥檝e been doing this for a while when it got started. Why don鈥檛 you give us a little background on how you got into it and we鈥檒l go from there?

Nick: Yeah, that鈥檚 right. I started really right when Facebook Messenger opened up the messenger API to everybody which was like late 2016 I think. Don鈥檛 quote me on that but鈥�

Jesse: Wow, that鈥檚 amazing, it鈥檚 only 2019 right now. This really hasn鈥檛 even existed for that long.

Nick: Yeah, the whole concept has but when it got really effective for people I think was when Facebook started doubling down on this stuff. I started then and actually took a class right away from Andrew Warner. I don鈥檛 know if your audience is maybe familiar with him from the Mixergy podcast.

Richard: Yeah. We had him on another show.

Nick: Okay, sweet. So I was actually in his very first class about messenger marketing and I didn鈥檛 know who I was gonna work with. And it just turned out that e-commerce was a great fit. So we started with working with more and more e-commerce companies and actually now teach it at his class, Bot Academy.

Jesse: Very nice. Actually, I heard him speak at one of the conferences here recently. And then he had a little event where you could go drink bourbon with him. And I was like “All right, Rich, FYI”. I sent this message but then I didn鈥檛 make it. But I鈥檓 like “All right, you got me.”

Nick: A couple of reminders like “Hey, come to scotch tonight.”

Jesse: Yeah, that鈥檚 right. Scotch tonight, I鈥檓 like “I鈥檓 not really in the mood for X in the morning” but that seems like a good idea. So anyway鈥�

Richard: Did you make it to that?

Nick: I鈥檓 sorry, did I?

Richard: Did you make it to it, Nick?

Nick: He has them occasionally when there鈥檚 events and all that, so I鈥檝e been to a couple of them.

Jesse: Okay. See you saw the appeal.

Nick: We were all there but鈥�

Jesse: Yeah, well, I鈥檓 not surprised.

Nick: Just kidding.

Jesse: Good, so now you hooked up with Andrew Warner doing chatbots, took a class and now you鈥檙e teaching classes. So now we know your advanced level. We鈥檙e gonna have to try to break it down to some actionable tips for people getting started on e-commerce. How would you tell somebody that has never鈥� Maybe let鈥檚 start off with what the heck is a chatbot if people had no idea what that is.

Nick: Yeah. So I think how you guys touched on voice stuff. I think people are generally more familiar with that right away. It鈥檚 almost like Alexa and (mind鈥檚 going off now of course) but in Facebook Messenger. Plus all the stuff we can do that you would think you can do like in a traditional text message or Facebook Messenger. It鈥檚 just an automated version of messages you would send to friends but that can drive business for you.

Jesse: I like that, we like business.

Richard: Yeah. What鈥檚 the difference between that and a live chat? Cause I noticed some live chats have like pre-configured things. I mean there are a few similarities and I鈥檝e heard some people use chatbots as a live chat too. How does that work?

Nick: Yeah. So you should absolutely be using chatbots with a live person. That is 100%. There should be somebody there if at all possible because bots are great at certain things. They鈥檙e not great at handling complex situations and that鈥檚 where if you have that live person that can step in when they need to. It鈥檚 a huge advantage for you. But versus just live chat on your website, a bot can automate things. So we鈥檙e starting to handle all the small pieces and bits that you don鈥檛 want to deal with. “Where鈥檚 my order?” is probably one of the biggest questions e-commerce companies get. Do you want to answer five hundred “Where鈥檚 my order?” emails a day?

Jesse: No, thank you. If you鈥檙e selling like two things a week, sure, you can handle that but once you start doing some volume, you don鈥檛 want to deal with that.

Nick: Right. So in the same thing with live chat, you would have to outsource that or do something. The quality of the answer is sometimes inconsistent. So in things that are a bit rote or FAQ-type stuff chatbots excel a lot. You can make them smarter but there are issues with that. So we try to stick to the basics at least at first.

Jesse: Ok. All right. That makes sense, basics. So you want to help people with the order emails. “When are you open?” What are some other basic questions that a chap can handle?

Nick: Honestly, think of anything you have in your FAQ section. That鈥檚 the sort of thing that is fairly easy. Like a one sentence answer or so. Or you can point people to there your shipping policy if it鈥檚 larger things like that. We don鈥檛 have to keep them inside messenger absolutely. We can link out to your website and provide other customer service avenues. But customer service is only one piece of what a bot can do.

Jesse: Ok.

Richard: So in a situation like when you said: “Where鈥檚 my order?”. That sounds like there鈥檒l probably be some sort of integration that would have to get set up. Because I鈥檓 assuming if you鈥檙e saying that could be automated, “Where鈥檚 my order?”. You鈥檙e at the bare minimum are going to have to say “What鈥檚 your order number?” Would that be like the first reply back via the bot and you would try to get a little further down the line before a live person got involved or would you have to then have some sort of integration with order status?

Nick: Yeah. That鈥檚 right. The funny thing is like if I鈥檓鈥� not the funny thing. The nice part is if somebody opts in and orders, you do need a third party app to do this but you can actually track their shipment and do all that stuff without them even entering an order number. But if somebody hasn鈥檛 opted in and gone through that whole process, you鈥檙e right. We need to do is ask for the order number and then you probably use Zapier or something like that. Send it to a third, have something sent back to the customer. That one may be a little more advanced but it depends. Sometimes it can be as simple as just sending them to a status page, in the shipping integration.

Richard: Since most of the 黑料门 users鈥� although there鈥檚 quite a few that are far along in their journey of e-commerce and they have lead acquisition down and a few other things down. What are the things that you would recommend to a beginner in e-commerce? Use chatbots for鈥� What are a few use cases in that they could get started relatively easy and find something useful in using chatbots? Kind of right away.

Nick: Yeah, fair question, probably, should have started there. So if I was just starting this now for somebody, I like to start at the bottom of the funnel because I think that鈥檚 where we can make the biggest impact. Most of these guys probably already, and I think you have a dynamic product ad retargeting setup with Facebook.

Jesse: We do.

Nick: I would also split test Messenger retargeting ads. The advantage of using a messenger is that you would basically create. You鈥檇 need a bot first of all and you need to set up a messenger app. The same retargeting would apply. So you just have a pixel, you segment your audience based on people who have added something to a cart but have not checked out right. You can do it. Yeah. So that鈥檚 basic. But now instead of sending them directly to the product page where it鈥檚 basically purchased or don鈥檛, you鈥檙e sending them to a chatbot. And usually, this looks like the ad has some sort of discount. So your first message is “Hey, click here to claim your 10% off discount” or whatever. And as soon as they interact and press that button, they鈥檙e now a messenger subscriber. Think of those, just the same way you would as an email subscriber. So you have these people captured on a list where you can keep talking to them and marketing to them. That鈥檚 the first big advantage. It鈥檚 not a take it or leave it thing. We have them on a list right away.

Jesse: OK. And so now how did they get on that list? You said they abandoned the cart. And now there are pixels that are firing there, that are making that happen in those. There are some steps there. So for people listening if you鈥檝e never done dynamic product ads, you might want to do that first. But because we tie in a couple of things together here. So they opted in, did they opt in only when they see this in Messenger and they say “yes”, they want this discount or had they already opted in some other way?

Nick: No. So the ad is the exact same as you would see, a traditional in-feed ad but the call-to-action opens messenger. So when they click on the ad, Messenger opens up. Then they have to do something inside Messenger, just seeing the ad isn鈥檛 enough. They need to take some action, whether that鈥檚 saying “no, thanks.” Ironically, that also subscribes them, although you have to be careful with what you do with those people.

Jesse: Sure. “Leave me alone.” And then they鈥檙e subscribed.

Richard: Yeah, exactly right. So you need this segment that out. But you鈥檙e now creating that list as soon as they take any action inside messenger.

Jesse: Got it. OK. We鈥檝e talked a little bit about chatbots with maybe previous episodes but this is a new one for me that I hadn鈥檛 thought of before. You鈥檙e not actually asking for the opt-in to the list. You鈥檙e actually really not asking for the opt-in, you鈥檙e kind of getting it. But it鈥檚 people that have senior products, now they see it on Facebook and then you鈥檙e asking for the opt-in, giving away a little bit of a coupon to do it but you鈥檙e building this really good list. That begs the question of why the heck do I want to build a messenger list? What鈥檚 the value in it?

Nick: Yeah. The same type of question, why would you want to build an email list? The traditional notion with the e-mail is you make about a dollar per subscriber.

Jesse: Per month.

Nick: Yeah, each per message sent out. It is true usually. I mean the rate varies a ton but鈥�

Jesse: And I鈥檝e heard that stat before so I just want to clarify it.

Nick: Yeah. And so what we鈥檝e seen with Messenger is look, the open rates are a ton higher generally for like these first messages that you send out. It鈥檚 about 80%. If you compare that to your e-mail where you鈥檙e getting an open rate of I don鈥檛 know 20-30% maybe if you鈥檙e good. Then click through rates are usually also very high. Again before just talking these first couple messages they hover like 68% to 80%. Just having that alone increases the value of somebody on your list because they鈥檙e more likely to take action and more likely to see it and do something you want. They actually become more valuable and in a lot of ways than email subscribers.

Richard: I would imagine that a lot of this is really sitting down, getting a whiteboard out and saying “What is my customers” experience right now?鈥� They just went to the website, I do a hypothetical even though I don鈥檛 have a whiteboard right now. So they just went to the website. I kind of go back to your initial thing. They got to the product page. But they didn鈥檛 get pixeled on the “Thank you” page. In other words, they didn鈥檛 buy anything. And now I have dynamic retargeting setup because we鈥檝e already done that already and I鈥檓 now going to make an ad go up in front of the person who got to the product page but didn鈥檛 buy the product. So if I鈥檓 trying to think from the customer point of view in the world of e-commerce, I don鈥檛 know this as a hard stat because they might have just not bought because they鈥檙e at work and their boss came in the room. I don鈥檛 know why they didn鈥檛 buy but from what stats I鈥檝e seen in, and experience we鈥檝e had over time it鈥檚 usually some sort of shipping issue or some sort of trust issue. They鈥檙e probably sold on the product. And so in this case that you were referring to as an example maybe even putting a testimonial video. They don鈥檛 even know because now you鈥檙e looking from the customer鈥檚 experience. They were there, they see this product now, they see your brand name again and their messenger feed. Maybe it鈥檚 just a testimonial and it鈥檚 somebody showing themselves using the product and that little difference, that little teeny thing that could maybe down below say鈥� I don鈥檛 know, it might be creepy to say “Are you still interested in this product?” Because then it鈥檚 like it鈥檚 following you around. But saying this ever been something your instrument or whatever, just something thinking out the actual what the customer was going through when they abandoned it. You don鈥檛 know for sure again, there鈥檙e many things that could have happened. But trying to really think out what were they thinking when they were there and why they might not have done it, so you can continue that conversation via messenger later.

Nick: Yeah. Then the really cool part with Messenger doing it. There are a couple of pieces of that. So you鈥檙e saying like “OK, yes let鈥檚 think of why the customer didn鈥檛 end up purchasing from us.” And you鈥檙e right. Shipping costs like unexpected things. Maybe some trust. The cool part about Messenger is we can just ask. And we can present a couple of different options, the most likely or ask somebody to type their answer in and you鈥檇 be surprised how many answers and how happy people get with you. There was a funny study that it鈥檚 not e-commerce at all but it was for therapy bot people were more willing to disclose personal information to a therapy bot than they were to an actual live human.

Richard: Huh. That鈥檚 amazing. That鈥檚 a good point though. I want to before you continue, you say you just ask “Why didn鈥檛 you buy?” Just straight to the point, maybe not that harsh but just something along those lines. “Hey, notice you here, you were at our site, saw you didn鈥檛 buy. We really like feedback. We want to improve what鈥檚 going on for our customers. Can you give us the reason you didn鈥檛 buy?” You could hear everything. They might say: “I was at work and I had to go” or whatever. And you鈥檙e actually not only potentially moving them back into the buying process but no matter what, they could be giving you more information to change things on your site or they鈥檙e giving you the questions to ask, to put in your bot for those FAQs like you were talking about.

Nick: Yeah, 100%. It doesn鈥檛 end there. Depending on their answer we can save all those, so the merchant can see them which is usually pretty easy from any鈥� You need a chatbot platform but we can maybe add those or talk about them later but whatever response they give, you can also send that out to like a Google Doc. If that鈥檚 where you want to save all your stuff or tied into your CRM. There鈥檚 lots of stuff. It doesn鈥檛 have to stand on its own. You can figure out later. “Look, this is an issue for our buying process in general and here鈥檚 what a lot of customers are saying now.”

Jesse: I think that鈥檚 great. Yeah.

Richard: What about that鈥� Go ahead, finish your thought here. This will slightly go off-topic. It鈥檚 still on chatbot topic but a different part of it.

Nick: I mean and then depending on the answer. If you come in and say that shipping was a little high. Well, maybe the bot can actually handle that and say “All right, we actually have a discount for 5% off” or whatever it is. But if you say something like “I didn鈥檛 see a trust symbol” or like we talked about something even more. “I didn鈥檛 quite find the right product for me.” Now we can automatically hand that off to a live person if it鈥檚 not a simple situation where they can instantly respond to those objections and barriers to the sale.

Richard: Yeah, that鈥檚 a great point. It鈥檚 actually going to say. This is great. These are good things right. These are either someone鈥檚 already on your site and they鈥檙e about to buy or they did buy and they鈥檙e trying to find their order. What about actually acquiring customers? Are there very many people that are using it in a way where someone can actually acquire leads or acquire customers?

Nick: Yeah. So that鈥檚 the other spot to start really. Top of the funnel, bottom of the funnel and the process is probably pretty similar. If you have a custom audience, I mean we would go back to probably using a Facebook ad. If you already have a ton of traffic from your site. There are things we can do on site but if we鈥檙e just talking about ads. You鈥檙e going to give something away. Could be a coupon. Doesn鈥檛 have to be. That鈥檚 probably the easiest thing to set up but you can also create quizzes to tell the user a little bit more about themselves and how the product would work for them. You really have to know your customer well for those to be effective as lead magnets or you can give something else away that鈥檚 a value. We would do the same thing. We鈥檇 get them back into the box so they see the ad they click. And we get them back into messenger and deliver whatever you promised. Right there though you can also ask a customer for their email address, either before or after giving whatever that lead magnet. You can also push people from your messenger bot into your email list, have them both places which you should be doing anyway. It鈥檚 not just about the bot.

Jesse: Got it. OK. I think that鈥檚 pretty interesting so. All right. We鈥檙e doing Facebook ads. So everybody listening there and hopefully done some Facebook ads if you haven鈥檛. It鈥檚 not that hard but in the Facebook ad, you鈥檙e using that chat or a messenger conversation as the goal. Correct? OK. So using a messenger conversation I forget the exact term that they use inside the ad, Ad Manager but I like the idea of you have to offer up something of value. If you don鈥檛 have enough room for a little margin, a little coupon in your product, you should probably market your prices a little bit, so you can offer coupons. That鈥檚 part of the game here. So you鈥檙e offering up a coupon which means they鈥檙e more likely to buy anyway because now they have this coupon. But now you鈥檝e sneakily added them to your list. So getting back to a conversation before, why do we want to do this when I want to build this list. So now when they are on your list if they buy then great. That鈥檚 awesome. That was your original goal but now you鈥檙e building this big list and then you can communicate to that list down the road just like you would an email.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. And you don鈥檛 even necessarily need to wait. So if they come, you offer them something, they go into messenger and then you send them back to your site to purchase get it. It鈥檚 a little more advanced but we can actually trigger if they add something to cart and then don鈥檛 purchase. We can actually trigger abandon card messages and Messenger and do lots of stuff along the way and try to re-engage those people. I would say one more thing. You never really want to try to trick people that they鈥檙e on your list. We tried to be pretty upfront about that. It鈥檚 a bot, that鈥檒l actually eliminate a lot of frustration when they think they鈥檙e talking to a live person right away. You get some issues.

Jesse: Yeah. The trick was the鈥� Probably the wrong word there but you鈥檙e trying to get people onto your list. However, you can鈥�

Richard: You also said sneakily.

Jesse: Sneakily trick them. Let鈥檚 cut that part here. You are trying to build a list. I guess that鈥檚 the point I was trying to get at is that you have a goal here. Merchants have a goal of building your list. And the reason you want to build this list is because that鈥檚 the goal right there. And the messenger list is the new email list if you will. So there are a lot of ways to build it. And this is a good strategy to do so. No, it鈥檚 not a trick.

Nick: Exactly, so you can re-engage them later. Now I don鈥檛 want to get too far into this because it is a little more but Facebook just at F8 which was like a couple of weeks ago. There are some new limitations on how you can reach out to those people on an ongoing basis. You do have to be careful and get somebody who knows what they鈥檙e doing with a messenger to help you navigate that.

Jesse: Yep. So now we talked a little bit about third parties. Let鈥檚 dive into that a little bit because people are thinking “I know messenger. I have my phone”. You can get a messenger widget to put on your website but essentially that鈥檚 not a chatbot, that鈥檚 just a messenger. That鈥檚 essentially a live chat if you will. What do third parties offer in addition to just having messenger by itself?

Nick: The whole list part that we talked about, you need a chatbot platform, a third party to start building your list.

Jesse: Ok. So messenger by itself. If you went to Facebook and grab the little messenger widget code through on your site, you鈥檙e not building a list. Is that the case?

Nick: Pretty much. None of that can really be automated. So you could go back to your Facebook inbox and manually send everything but it鈥檇 be like sending a manual email to everybody on your list.

Jesse: Ok. Yeah, you鈥檙e not doing that. Please don鈥檛 do that. OK. Got it. So that鈥檚 where the third parties come in to start building that list.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. And then it also lets you automate some of this stuff. We talked about it. So click 10% off to get my coupon. OK, here鈥檚 your coupon, right messenger. Otherwise again how do you do that? There鈥檚 no way.

Jesse: You would be just typing all that or having people type that. The functionality that you mentioned, the chat but might notice the questions about shipping. That鈥檚 also鈥� Let鈥檚 say for instance anybody asks anything about shipping, you want to have the chatbots bit back the link to your shipping policies page at a minimum. So is that fairly easy to set up in a chatbot platform?

Nick: Yeah. It鈥檚 the basic stuff, it is fairly easy. You do have to be a little careful because what you鈥檙e going to set up is called a keyword. We鈥檇 probably take one word out of there and say shipping. So if somebody mentions shipping or says “Where鈥檚 my shipment” you can do a phrase then. We can trigger your shipping policy to be sent to that person as a message and maybe a link to your website. But what happens if somebody says “Well, do you ship to Idaho or China?” or wherever. Are you going to handle that the same way as “track my order.” Like “where鈥檚 my shipment.” So that鈥檚 where it gets a little complicated. We tried to just send them to maybe a main FAQ type thing where they can navigate with buttons. We do try to stay away from keywords at a basic level because of that.

Jesse: Got it. That makes sense. And I鈥檝e I have played with chatbots before and I think that was some of the issues. There was a lot of issues but I definitely see the need for having a live human behind it. We set up some sort of contextual question and then people would get frustrated with the answer to those times. I get it.

Nick: Yeah, I mean it can turn into a crappy experience pretty fast especially if they think that a human is powering any of it.

Jesse: Yeah, I get that.

Richard: Yeah, that鈥檚 where coming in, where we noticed at one point where we actually said. I can鈥檛 remember the exact name of the bot but we named the bot. And that actually helped a little bit. And one question I do have is on some of these platforms can you delay the response time so it鈥檚 not super fast? If it is that strange question that is a little bit off topic or maybe like you said: “Do you ship to another place?”. It鈥檚 not just spin ups policy page but it鈥檚 actually a question that live human should answer. Can you delay the response time of the chatbot so someone else might be able to do that in a minute or 30 seconds?

Nick: Yeah. That鈥檚 interesting. I hadn鈥檛 actually thought of that approach to it. Usually, what we do is if there鈥檚 something the bot doesn鈥檛 understand or can鈥檛 respond to, we notify the live person. Or just tell somebody: “Hey, I鈥檓 sorry, I didn鈥檛 quite get that, we notified the team but here鈥檚 what I can help you with.” And that again probably leads back to FAQ or a main menu of stuff.

Richard: So how does it do that? Wow. Like how does it notify the team? Does it have a trigger that sends them an email or a trigger that sends them a text?

Nick: Yep. Exactly. So it can be an email. Or it could do for certain platforms. It can also do it right inside the messenger. Let鈥檚 say you came in like I said “Ship to China” and the bot doesn鈥檛 know the answer. “Sorry, we just notified the appropriate team member.” So anybody who鈥檚 on the chat board platform can be notified with many chats right inside messenger.

Jesse: So it鈥檚 to notify their messenger?

Nick: Correct.

Jesse: Got it. Can it send a message to Slack?

Nick: That鈥檚 a little more complicated but yes, you can set that up.

Jesse: Okay. If if it鈥檚 notifying their messenger I鈥檓 worried that they should already be in the messenger. I just went into a place they still are not going to see it, so.

Nick: Sorry, I guess I should clarify. It actually notifies the personal messenger, not just the business messenger page. So it would be like if, for your store, your personal profile would get a ping from the live chat platform saying, “Hey, this customer had x question, go check it out in our platform. Go answer them.”

Jesse: Got It. Okay. And it鈥檚 pretty hard to ignore messenger messages because your phone dings and it pops up on the top of your phone.

Nick: Yeah. But you鈥檙e right. Like wherever you, you handle that stuff, we can get it there. But at a basic level, either an email or write inside messenger are the out of the box solutions for that.

Jesse: Okay. It鈥檚 a messenger email. And you mentioned the third parties, ManyChat. Is that your preferred platform right now?

Nick: Many chat and Chatfuel or the two we use most.

Jesse: Okay. All right. And do you want to discuss them a little bit? You don鈥檛 work for ManyChat or Chatfuel. So speak freely. What, what should people be looking for when they鈥檙e looking at a third party?

Nick: Yeah. Either platform is actually really, they鈥檙e great. They both have some pros and cons. ManyChat is probably a little bit easier if you鈥檙e a marketer, it feels like a marketing automation tool that you鈥檝e used before. Chatfuel is adding some of that in, but if your background is coding, that will probably feel a little more familiar to you because of the way it鈥檚 set up. They both offered templates at a basic level. I would highly caution people not to rely too much on these templates. It鈥檚 almost easier to set it up on your own because by the time you figure out what the hell the template is doing, sometimes that can be difficult if there鈥檚 not really good documentation to go along with it. But yeah, you鈥檇 be fine with either one. They both offer pretty deep insights into your audience members and can do pretty much everything we talked about here. And if they can鈥檛, they also have integrations that work with them that that can help you do it.

Jesse: Got It. Okay. Now it makes sense. And so when we talked about those third parties, you have to work with one of those third parties to build up that messenger list. So for anyone listening, if you didn鈥檛 catch that, you need to work with a third party to build that list. And that is the goal here among the many other things we鈥檙e talking about.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. That鈥檚 the way that we can broadcast out messages. If we鈥檙e talking in terms of email, like push out a broadcast or even after somebody purchases a welcome sequence, like “Hey, welcome to the family.” Right from email. The big upside is people see them.

Jesse: That鈥檚 important. If you want to sell to that person again, which I hope you do.

Richard: You also mentioned you鈥檙e building these lists and you said you could segment, so I鈥檇 take it that this is another thing that these third-party apps do well. Do they actually help you segment the audience? Is that a truism or am I just dreaming up? Oh, these people bought from you, these people landed on this page but didn鈥檛 do anything else. Is there a way to start at least to segment that list in the whole list?

Nick: Yes is the answer to it. But if you鈥檙e starting out, you would just try to start segmenting what people have done inside of your Messenger Bot. So did they click on the 10% off coupon? You can create a segment of those people. Did they not? Well, maybe we have to follow up with them again inside messenger. Linking your website to what鈥檚 happening on messenger is a little harder. But yeah, it can definitely be done. It鈥檚 just not something out of the box.

Richard: Got It. So in your opinion, it鈥檚 why you probably said, you want to combine a live person with this? Because they might notice those little intricacies like this person actually just bought, I saw the order go through, so I鈥檓 going to apply a little bit different. But when it comes to actual marketing to your list on messenger, if you go off of the activities that they did on messenger, you鈥檙e probably gonna help that experience. Plus you鈥檒l probably be a little bit better at making sure you鈥檙e keeping up with Facebook鈥檚 terms of services too. Because if you start combining too many things, you might start doing too much marketing. Quoting over here. I could see what you mean. Like they鈥檝e done this in messenger. Don鈥檛 try to early on to combine your website. They clicked on this and messenger, they saw that welcome video in messenger. They haven鈥檛 opened something in the last three days on messenger, whatever. I鈥檓 making a few things up, but specifically kind of target them and market to them based on what they did there. More than what they did overall.

Nick: Great. We could do an example real quick. Let鈥檚 say that you have a tea company. So the first question might be, “Hey, let us help you try to find the right tee for you. If you鈥檙e not sure what tea you want. So are you looking for caffeine or you not?” Right. So then we could segment those people and send them to different answers, different places and start understanding customer preferences along the way. So we have one tag that says black tea, one that says green, one that says all that sort of stuff. So we can segment pretty deeply inside messenger.

Jesse: Okay. And then you could send them information based on that. That answer, right? Like okay, this kind of tea, here鈥檚 a video on the proper preparation or trying to not go immediately for the here鈥檚 the product you should buy and here鈥檚 a coupon.

Nick: Exactly.

Jesse: Cause really that鈥檚 what you want to do. But that鈥檚 not the appropriate way, it could scare you.

Nick: Yeah. But if you have a blog about the 10 best uses for black tea or whatever it is, you can pop something up on your website with a specific, like what we just talked about, quiz or finder or just some testimonials, things about the black tea that people would be interested in seeing and lead them down that path. And once they鈥檝e taken enough actions and expressed enough interest in your bot, which would be essentially segmenting people, then you might offer a coupon if you think that person鈥檚 closer to that ultimate decision of buying.

Jesse: Got It. Okay. So now imagine I鈥檓 somebody that鈥檚 never heard of chatbots, really are just basically heard of chatbots. How complicated is it to set something like that up? Cause as we talked about a lot of different things and I鈥檝e seen the back end of chatbot platforms. I鈥檇 say they鈥檙e a little complicated. How hard is that process to set up for somebody if they really dedicated like a couple of hours to it? Can they accomplish that?

Nick: Yeah, I would keep it basic. Don鈥檛 try to do too much in there. Don鈥檛 try to automate too much. All this stuff we talked about is cool and great, but I would have a live person taking a look at this and being able to respond if not right away then within a couple of hours ideally. So you set up a couple of things. One is going to be a welcome message. If somebody comes into your bot, what are they going to see? And your example is perfect of, “Hey, I鈥檓 whatever bot, here鈥檚 what I can do for you basically.” I鈥檇 set up a customer service flow. I need help with something so that I probably would go to the live person right away and then I would set up to others and those would just be your ads. Messenger ad, a little bit of flow, delivering the coupon or whatever it is. And I would do something slightly different for the top and bottom. And the last thing I would do is it default reply. So what that is, if somebody says something or does something that bot doesn鈥檛 understand what message should somebody see. And that鈥檚 usually like, “Hey, let me get you to a live person to start.” So those five things.

Jesse: Okay. I like that and also the live person I think is super important. I actually turned off my chatbot for a little bit because it was getting, people would ask questions on the weekend and then they wouldn鈥檛 get answered, so then it was super annoying.

Richard: Especially because they had just gotten the answers for a little while and then it鈥檚 a bot.

Jesse: Yeah. The clock turns at five o鈥檆lock, no one鈥檚 answering anymore. And then they鈥檙e like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa. What happened? They were getting these instant answers and then nothing.

Nick: That鈥檚 something that can be dealt with you. We can set office hours if you will, but again, that鈥檚 a little more advanced.

Jesse: What is your thought on using a chatbot for, we鈥檒l call it like live chat on the website. So we talked about different bots, but we didn鈥檛 necessarily talk about where they show up. Are you pretty much when you have a new client, first things first, put this chat a widget on your website or not, what are your thoughts on that?

Nick: It really depends on your goals with it. And then also where do you have traffic? Are you doing something already that鈥檚 working really well for you? Can we do that better with a bot? What sucks that you want to automate? And then are people actually going to see it? Is it going to matter to you? So if you have some traffic on your website and you鈥檙e already using live chat, yeah, absolutely. It鈥檚 a great idea because now you鈥檙e capturing people on the list. You have to be very careful in telling people or future communication with those people because they鈥檙e not expecting that. But if you鈥檙e upfront about it, then yeah, you capture those people, you at least have, you can segment them as well. A little bit more about their preferences and you can use it as a live chat so you don鈥檛 need one if it could be a replacement.

Jesse: Got It. And that鈥檚 how I used it at first as it was essentially a live chat replacement and then added a little bit of, added some chat to it. I think maybe there are customers that had weird expectations from it. I鈥檓 going to, I鈥檓 definitely going back into it and I鈥檓 going to redo it, but I was just kinda curious on your thoughts there.

Nick: The customer service piece is frankly the hardest piece to get right in a bot. So it depends on what the x, you need to set expectations if you鈥檙e trying to use it for that or just get people to a live person pretty fast.

Jesse: Okay. No, I think that that鈥檚 really helpful and makes a lot of sense. Like chatbots won鈥檛 solve all your problems right out of the box, but it can do a lot for you. And maybe customer support unless you鈥檙e ready for live chat might be, that鈥檚 a difficult one to chew. You don鈥檛 know what kind of questions they鈥檙e gonna ask, but they鈥檙e sometimes not happy either. They鈥檙e sometimes mad about something and you throw a chatbot at them that doesn鈥檛 make them feel better necessarily.

Nick: No, you got a pissed off customer that鈥檚 even more angry about having to go through. It鈥檚 like a phone menu almost. But yeah, when you鈥檙e already pissed, you don鈥檛 care. You鈥檙e just like, come on.

Jesse: Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. And I think that鈥檚 probably where I made a little bit of a mistake where I was trying to do too much. Or maybe I should have focused on the five options you mentioned before, which are maybe better for marketers and if you鈥檙e trying to build traffic and build sales, there are other things to focus on.

Nick: In terms of live chat on your website, it鈥檚 great and, but you can automate some of it like I mentioned, an FAQ type thing. So my first pop up thing might be like, “Hey, I鈥檓 this bot, here鈥檚 what I can help FAQ. Or do you need to speak to a live person?” And then handles most of those objections because right away they can get to where they want to go.

Jesse: That makes perfect sense.

Richard: To your point, people鈥檚 experience with chat so far. And what I mean by so far is like in the history of chat, it鈥檚 kind of a long time, but not with messenger. But it鈥檚 been customer service. So it鈥檚 kind of a tricky one because it鈥檚 always been a person sitting there. Sometimes it takes a long time and you can see I鈥檓 typing and they鈥檙e actually probably now, now they stopped for a second. They鈥檙e probably going to talk to someone like their experience has been coming up through customer service. So if you don鈥檛 keep that in mind and you鈥檙e trying to market while they鈥檙e thinking they鈥檙e trying to get customer service, it could backfire quick. I could see.

Nick: Yeah, that鈥檚 a perfect point. That鈥檚 what we really tailor our messages. The first thing we say to somebody based on how they get into the bot. So if we鈥檙e talking about like on site, the little messenger bubble or even from your Facebook page directly and they send you a message, those are usually customer service related.

Jesse: Got It. So with those customer support people, do you want to tag those, or like to use more of a, hey that goes to a live person, ideally. So that way you don鈥檛 end up in trouble.

Nick: It鈥檚 where we talked about, it鈥檚 like, let鈥檚 try to automate this a little bit. It reasons to automate some of it like with an FAQ because your live chats not going to be there 24/7. So if we can answer some of those questions, people are happier. If it鈥檚 like six o鈥檆lock and they can just say, “What鈥檚 your shipping policy?” Or click on that and get it. But yeah, pretty quick. They need to either be able to get a short answer from the bot or go to live.

Jesse: Okay. Yeah. I like that. And then I cut you off there a little bit, you鈥檙e going to give a marketing tip there.

Nick: Yeah. The expectation is different if they鈥檙e coming in from a Facebook ad because that鈥檚 marketing focused. They don鈥檛 have a customer service concern probably. Maybe if they have abandoned cart actually. So that鈥檚 something you do need to consider a little bit. You might want to give a live chat option there as well because your customer service person is probably going to handle that objection better than your bot could. The expectation is different. So that鈥檚 what we want to focus on. Creating messages that meet those expectations.

Jesse: Okay. That makes sense. So I want to come back a little bit to the Facebook example you mentioned because I think this is the one where if you want more traffic, more sales, how can we鈥� Let鈥檚 take a look at a new merchant. They鈥檙e like “I鈥檓 getting some sales, got some traffic and everything”. But they want to do this strategy we鈥檝e talked about, they want to have a Facebook ad that goes to the messenger and then delivers a coupon or something. So should they use other ads that they would use? What would be the advice to somebody getting started with this, what should their Facebook ads say? Do you want a coupon? Or how can we get how to help people visualize this? So they can do this next weekend.

Nick: Got it. If we鈥檙e talking about retargeting鈥�

Jesse: Probably not retargeting because let鈥檚 think of they want to prospect and which prospecting is harder than remarketing. I get it, let鈥檚 go with a prospecting example.

Nick: Okay, perfect. Basically, you want to tell them a little bit about your product. A little bit, not about your product so much, but the benefit that you鈥檙e going to get. So focusing on the customer. Here鈥檚 X, Y, Z, like, use this tea, you鈥檒l sleep like a baby at night. It鈥檚 a terrible piece of copy. But for first-time customers, try this, we鈥檒l take 10% off your order or maybe get free shipping with whatever. And the call to action at the bottom is very similar to what you would see with a regular Facebook ad. It just has a little messenger icon on there and it鈥檒l open in messenger so you don鈥檛 have to change a whole lot. You can mess it. Say something like “We鈥檒l message you” if you really want to emphasize that. But frankly you don鈥檛 even need to, it just needs to be a good ad. And then it opens in messenger. You do have to be sure of is, let鈥檚 make sure that the ad copy and our message have a tight fit, meaning one leads very much into the next. The images are the same, the wording is the same. You鈥檙e delivering on the promise.

Jesse: Got It. Okay. Really the assets we鈥檙e talking about here is you need a picture. Okay, well you need a picture for a whole bunch of other things. So everybody, if you don鈥檛 have a picture of this, this is a problem. You want to go take a picture, take a picture of your product, have it in a good setting and everything and then a little bit of copy that talks about the benefits of your product. And then that messenger thing that鈥檚 built into the Facebook ad and then have your chatbot ready to deliver on that promise. That鈥檚 really not that many steps. So if you listen to all this stuff and you鈥檙e like, “Oh my gosh, that sounds like a lot.” It鈥檚 really not that hard. It鈥檚 a couple of things that you need.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. You got to build your ad on Facebook. Then you go over to your chatbot platform to build your message. And with ManyChat, they鈥檙e going to give you a little bit of code to paste into Facebook鈥檚 ads manager and then you basically live.

Jesse: Okay. See that鈥檚 not so hard, Rich.

Richard: No, sounds good. It sounds like should we build a chatbot this weekend? Yeah. Maybe it鈥檚 time. Are we almost done? Can we just get started?

Jesse: I think we鈥檙e almost done. Yeah, maybe we鈥檙e going to go. All right, we鈥檙e going to set up an account. Nick, do you have a place where people can go to set up an account with, already have a chatbot example you鈥檇 like to share?

Nick: Yeah. If everybody wants to go to MindHeros. So it鈥檚 MindHeros.com/黑料门. I鈥檒l have something for you guys there.

Jesse: All right, awesome. I like that. We can see all this in action because it鈥檚 a lot of words. Sometimes it鈥檚 hard to grasp what the heck a chatbot is. I do think people should see it live, go to that link. We鈥檒l include in the show notes and on the page, check it out for yourself. Nick, I鈥檓 gonna mess with you. I鈥檓 going to go there and ask where my order is and see what comes up. We鈥檒l see if you can break up.

Richard: I鈥檓 giving you some heads up.

Jesse: We鈥檙e going to try to break your chatbot, everybody else listening now. Don鈥檛 do it. Yeah. Rich, any last questions here?

Richard: No, I鈥檓 excited. I just wanted to get to work.

Jesse: We鈥檙e going to do it. Nick, thanks for being on the show. Appreciate it.