黑料门

Jesse and Richie talk with the founder of  about referral programs, affiliate marketing and what that can do for your online store.

• Referral programs vs. affiliate programs
• How to start a referral program
• Promote your referral program
• How to find influencers for your affiliate program

Transcript

Jesse: Richie, happy Friday!

Richard: Happy Friday, back again!

Jesse: It鈥檚 a good day. It鈥檚 a good Friday here. We do all these podcasts all the time and we talk about all these different traffic strategies. There鈥檚 SEO, there are ads and there are all these different things, there鈥檚 always a little bit of work involved, right? But if you grew up with Justin Bieber, or grew up with Tony Hawk and old skateboarding buddies. Or you鈥檙e willing to share your business with their followers. Do that first. Don鈥檛 write content and do all these other crazy things we talk about, use the connections you have used, the people you have. Anyway, that鈥檚 the thought here with today鈥檚 podcast.

Richard: It鈥檚 about awareness first, right? You can鈥檛 sell someone something if they don鈥檛 know about you. And if someone else has an audience and they have to know and trust already. Totally agree. Like you sell skateboard products and Tony, it has to be relevant. Right? So it would have to be someone you don鈥檛鈥� It鈥檚 a Kardashian and you鈥檙e selling medical equipment or something like that.

Jesse: I鈥檓 sure people have tried that as well. (laughing) You never know. But ultimately, the goal of the podcast here is to help merchants out there. Feel free to cheat. You don鈥檛 have to do all the hard work if you know the right people. It鈥檚 not even about knowing the right people I should back up, it鈥檚 just building the network and if your product or your business is very shareable, then maybe that鈥檚 the right place for you to start.

Richard: Yeah. And I wouldn鈥檛 necessarily even call it cheating. It鈥檚 just a way to shortcut or hack a little bit. That鈥檚 definitely not cheating though. Don鈥檛 give yourself a hard time just for knowing someone else.

Jesse: Yeah, exactly. That鈥檚 not cheating. I鈥檓 just saying that you don鈥檛 always have to do. Everybody鈥檚 business is a little bit different. So hopefully we can introduce a concept here that we haven鈥檛 talked about on the podcast. If your business is perfect for referrals or affiliate marketing or influencers, listen up, we鈥檙e bringing on the expert here, Arlen Robinson, the co-founder of OSI Affiliate Software. Arlen, how are you doing?

Arlen: I am doing awesome guys. Thanks for having me. How are you guys?

Jesse: We鈥檙e excellent. Excellent. Yeah, we鈥檙e hoping we鈥檙e going to pick your brain here and hopefully you can share some knowledge and some strategies with the 黑料门 audience. You鈥檙e the co-founder of OSI Affiliate Software. I guess we can back up a little bit. How did you get started in this Internet game?

Arlen: Oh, very good question. I鈥檒l try to make a long story short cause I鈥檝e got to have a lot of history. OSI Affiliate Software or our parent company Omnistar Interactive actually was founded in 2000, got into this whole Internet game. Probably about two years out of college, I and a college buddy of mine saw the budding internet and we said: “We want to be a part of that. We want to be on the side of the leaders where we鈥檙e a part of this whole technology enabled to help other people or the other businesses take advantage of it.” So we decided to start our own web development company two years out of college. I worked for a consulting firm in the northern Virginia area for a couple of years. My business partner did as well. He worked for another consulting firm and on the side, we put things together, decided to start our own web development shop. I got a pretty nice contract probably about a year into us doing this on the side where we were able to go. I was able to go full time with it. Then my partner joined me shortly after that and went full strong, full force into it. We were developing all types of websites, custom websites, custom web applications, e-commerce solutions, you name it. We did it, all four people that we鈥檙e trying to really get out there, take advantage of this new medium at the time. And we did that for several years. After that, we decided that we learned a lot and we saw that there was a lot of needs for certain functionality online. This was pre-software as a service where you didn鈥檛 have that many companies online that were selling software as a service, like the MailChimp. Those types of web applications where you can just easily go in there, pop in a credit card and send out an email to millions or maybe not millions, but a little less than that, things like that. So this was pre those days. We decided to create our own suite of solutions. One of them was the OSI Affiliate Software and we probably had about seven solutions at the time, ranging from a newsletter, email lists, management, e-commerce. We all even had a live chat help desk solution. And we did that for a while. But what we saw is that we were spreading ourselves a little too thin. We said, in order to really focus on a core area, we鈥檝e got to really whittle it down. And we saw that the old OSI Affiliate Software was the software that took off, referral marketing as you mentioned at the beginning is where it is today and it鈥檚 huge. And we saw the opportunity early on and decided to focus on that. And that brings us to today, the OSI Affiliates Software has been going strong and is our main product right now that I have. And that鈥檚 where I am. I am the co-founder and a lot of my day to day responsibilities are a business development. I do a high-level overview or oversight of our customer success team, but a primary day to day operations is the overall business development.

Jesse: Gotcha. So you get to go on podcasts and talk to people like us and spread the word.

Arlen: Exactly. I鈥檓 an evangelist of referral marketing, affiliate marketing and all things word of mouth.

Richard: So Arlene, this is Rich. I have a question for you for at its basic level since Jesse was even referring to spreading the word at its basic level, for those that have not even heard the term affiliate software and even really know what that means. This is like going back, way back in time and Jim was a butcher and Jim had amazing meat at his butcher shop and Jane would come in and buy meat. Well, when Jane would tell Bill and Jill and all her friends, the butcher shop would get more business, but there was never really a way to attribute that. Well, maybe way back in the day cause they would say: “Oh, they sent me in.” They would refer to the name and possibly get free meat. You never know. It鈥檇 be interesting to go back and study the history of when someone finally first came, but good luck on that one. But it鈥檚 at its basic level. This is a way to exponentially scale word of mouth. Correct. It鈥檚 just a fancy way to say it is an affiliate. And with your software, we鈥檒l get into it here a little deeper. There鈥檚 going to be some sort of code that when someone shares something, it basically refers back, this is the person who recommended and then they get some sort of percentage. Is that basic level?

Arlen: Yeah. At a basic level, you鈥檙e totally right, Rich. That鈥檚 exactly what it is. And as you mentioned going way, way back, word of mouth marketing has always been around, from just the early days of merchants providing services. There were always customers referring to others because they had a positive experience. Fast forward to today because of technology, businesses and solutions such as ours are able to get businesses, provide businesses with a platform so that they can track these referrals. And so businesses can incentivize people for referring others. And that鈥檚 really what it is.

Jesse: Yeah. That鈥檚 great. I think it鈥檚 good to bring it back, this is essentially word of mouth marketing, but it the incentive and the incentivizing is the helpful part because it can help it spread faster. You鈥檙e happy to tell your friend about the butcher, but if you knew you were getting a 10% off, you鈥檙e basically getting free meat for the next year, you might tell a hundred friends. This is the same way.

Arlen: Yeah, exactly. And one of the things that I鈥檝e seen just being in this business for so long and being in the whole referral marketing and affiliate marketing space is that it鈥檚 more popular than ever now because we鈥檙e at a time and place in history where since things have advanced and evolved so quickly, people are educated, more people, more intelligent. And I think also people鈥檚 patience is a little bit less than back in the day because we鈥檙e just used to having things when we want it and how we want it immediately. So these days, traditional types of advertising, as you guys know, has really been affected. People tend to shy away from standard ads on of course TV, nowadays I don鈥檛 know who sits through any commercials on TV. Most people watch shows, they buy whole seasons either via Netflix, of course, there are no ads. And then we鈥檝e got the cable services where they have all the on-demand program, which is how I believe most people consume things if they have cable services. And so people at these this state are conditioned to not really want to deal with these ads in any, a lot of times people glaze over ads. And that鈥檚 one of the reasons why you see all of these big brands that still do the traditional types of advertising, doing these outlandish ads that just catch your eye because they have to, they have to be over the top because if people had to sit and actually sit through a commercial, nine times out of ten they鈥檙e pulling out their phone. They鈥檙e on Facebook, they鈥檙e waiting till their commercial ends. But these big brands, they have to do something over the top. And that鈥檚 why affiliate marketing, overall referral marketing is so huge these days because you鈥檙e leveraging your customers and people typically trust recommendations from their friends. If you had a good experience, let鈥檚 say purchasing, let鈥檚 say some wireless headphones online, whatever company you got it from, you鈥檙e going to tell people about it. Your friend is going to see at the gym. “Wow, nice headphones. Where鈥檇 you get them?” And they are going to tell them, they鈥檙e going to tell that person. And that鈥檚 basically where it starts. And then the way it鈥檚 leveraged as far as incentivizing people to do it is technologies such as ours empower your customers to do this across social media and email and they鈥檙e going to be more likely to do it because they鈥檙e going to get a commission, whatever it is that you decide that it鈥檚 going to be. And that鈥檚 I think one of the main reasons why I think referral marketing and overall word of mouth marketing is so huge today.

Richard: You mentioned there a couple of times a referral marketing and affiliate marketing. Is that just a difference in vernacular or is there something that people should pay attention to that? Is there actually some sort of difference between the two of those?

Arlen: There is a slight difference and I know I do use it interchangeably and you鈥檝e probably heard a lot of people use them interchangeably, but the main difference is a referral program is when a business is getting customers to refer others to them. Their own customers that have used their products or services, they鈥檙e referring their friends and people that they know for an incentive. So that鈥檚 really what a referral program is using, utilizing your customers and leveraging them. And an affiliate program is when you鈥檙e reaching outside of your business, outside of your customer base to people that probably have never used your product or services and you鈥檙e getting them to be an affiliate partner and refer customers to you that they don鈥檛 know. That鈥檚 really the main difference. These days affiliate marketing really can, I guess you could say it goes hand in hand with influencer marketing. That鈥檚 the terminology. It has been used a lot these days. But influencers these days, I guess you could say are the affiliates of the today.

Richard: That makes sense. At its basic level, again, just so in case 黑料门 listeners not quite getting the difference. A referral program is you have your own email lists. You鈥檙e going to incentivize your own customers. “Hey, you go out, you tell more friends, we鈥檒l give you some sort of discount. Here鈥檚 a coupon code, here鈥檚 a gift card, here鈥檚 a percentage of whatever.” The affiliate is when you鈥檙e looking to get in front of other people鈥檚 audience, hence your influencer analogy. You sell a pancake spatula and you get in front of Sally鈥檚 awesome pancakes that has 2 million followers and you say: “Hey, Sally, talk about my pancakes spatula and we鈥檒l give you a 20% or whatever you can pick.” I鈥檓 assuming you can pick whatever. First off, is that correct? At its basic level there too?

Arlen: That鈥檚 totally correct.

Richard: Yeah. And then that would lead to that next question of can you set different prices for different events? Like certain influencers might get more cause they refer more, you can upgrade what they get or, or is it a set it across the board for everybody?

Arlen: It鈥檚 definitely doable. I know with our software, with OSI Affiliate Software, it鈥檚 possible to create multiple referral programs within the software. Let鈥檚 say you鈥檙e a business and of course you want to create a program where you can incentivize your customers for referring friends and family and people that they know. You can do that. You could also create another referral program for the influencers. And then your example Rich that you mentioned, you鈥檝e got like the Sally that makes the amazing pancakes that you want to promote your spatula. She would be an affiliate or an influencer because she鈥檚 probably never used your spatula before and she鈥檚 outside of your whole customer sphere, outside of your company. She鈥檚 never used your product, but she has a customer base that is right in there with your product. Because of course if you make pancakes you gotta have a spatula. Obviously, our customer base is ideal and yes, so you can create two different programs. One could be a referral program and you actually set the reward with each. For your customers maybe you鈥檒l have 10 to 20% commission for instance, per referred sale, which is standard. That鈥檚 why a lot where a lot of businesses start off with, but then you have Sally on the other end who has this amazing pancake business. It鈥檚 got a ton of customers. She鈥檚 going to command a lot higher for the commission because she鈥檚 going to be exposing your spatula to so many more people. Obviously, you鈥檙e gonna have to pay a little more. Maybe you pay Sally 30, maybe even 50% per sale, and you would be able to do that within the software where you can have the different programs, have the different types of either customers or affiliates under each program referring and earning a different commission.

Richard: Yeah, that鈥檚 a great point there, Arlen. I would also encourage 黑料门 listeners to not be “Wait, I don鈥檛 want to pay Sally more.” Well, here鈥檚 the difference. When we talked at the very beginning, we鈥檙e talking about you used to have to do SEO or paid ads. The difference is Sally鈥檚 getting you those new people. So what you would have been spending on ads to get that customer, you lose a little. You鈥檙e just making it up by paying her a little extra to bring new customers to your business. So thanks. Thanks for wording that way.

Jesse: Yeah.Then it was a helpful description of the differences because it鈥檚 really different strategies that you鈥檙e using. So if you鈥檙e setting up an affiliate program, you鈥檙e going to have to recruit affiliates, different people that are not your customers. They don鈥檛 know you. It鈥檚 going to be a little bit of grunt work of talking to people and such and convincing them whereas a referral program, that鈥檚 a little bit easier. those are your existing customers and hopefully, they want to champion your product. Hope your product is really good and then they want to share that. why would every 黑料门 store, why should they set up a referral program?

Arlen: Yeah, for number one, the bottom line. And what I tell people all the time, cause I talked to businesses all the time, is if you have a good product that you鈥檙e selling, nine times out of 10 the customer that鈥檚 purchasing that product is telling somebody about it. You know these days because of social media, it鈥檚 so easy to spread the word. It鈥檚 so easy to just hop on Facebook and say, I鈥檒l go back to the headphones to say, “Oh great, I just got these awesome headphones”. You鈥檝e got people on Facebook or all of these social channels, sharing photos of the product, them using the product, whatever it is, they鈥檙e going to spread the word regardless of what you do. So you might as well take advantage of that and incentivize them for doing it. Because either way, they鈥檙e spreading the word and as businesses may just not really realize it, that a lot of their business if they鈥檙e not tracking it, is probably coming from word of mouth. And so that鈥檚 why I say for 黑料门 store owners that are listening. It鈥檚 really critical that you do this because it鈥檚 been done already. And so you might as well take advantage of that and incentivize people to do it and then they鈥檙e gonna be more, more apt to do it actually because they鈥檙e being incentivized.

Richard: It鈥檚 funny, I was thinking of, once someone actually gets into it, say they鈥檙e an affiliate rep for the pancakes, or let鈥檚 just go with your headphone analogies. and you鈥檙e sitting at the gym and someone asks you next door if they鈥檙e not getting a paycheck consistently. Actually, I joked with myself, the person who actually gets it, they wouldn鈥檛 just say, they鈥檇 say: “Oh, when we鈥檙e done working out, remind me, I鈥檒l text you. I鈥檒l text you information.” So they can track the link. They鈥檙e not going to say: “Oh, these are Joe鈥檚 headphones. Oh God, I should鈥檝e texted the link. I would鈥檝e got a commission.” Just joking around.

Arlen: People may think that. You just never know because a lot of people these days, everybody has a little side hustle these days because believe it or not, things are expensive. You gotta have multiple streams of income. If you鈥檙e able to refer a business that you鈥檝e done business with, then yes, it鈥檚 a great way to get some additional income and yeah, people can do it.

Jesse: Yeah, that鈥檚 a good point. And I think as you mentioned, your customers are already sharing your product. You may not really know it because you鈥檙e not probably tracking it. And if you鈥檙e not encouraging your customers to do it, to do it by giving them little future discounters or a little kickback or something, you鈥檙e not really optimizing for it, you鈥檙e not taking advantage of it. For 黑料门 merchants that are listening right now, how would they set up a referral program for their own store?

Arlen: Great. I鈥檓 glad you asked that, Jesse. It鈥檚 super simple. If you are an 黑料门 store owner, all you have to do is go into the 黑料门 app store from within your account and then you can go into the marketing section of the categories there or just do a search for affiliate software. You can do a search for OSI Affiliate Software. You鈥檒l see our app there and then all you do is click “Add app”. And once you add it, we do give you a 15-day free trial. So as soon as you get it added onto your store, it immediately will start stepping you through the getting started wizard, which is super simple. And that was really one of our goals here at Omnistar is to make sure that all of our users have a clean and easy experience because we know front end cause we鈥檝e dealt with software for so many years, that it can be frustrating, especially when it鈥檚 difficult to go through solutions. So we鈥檝e made it super simple on going through the getting started wizard. It Is really just giving you the ability to set up your initial referral program where you would be defining it, giving it a name, determining what you want the landing page to, whether you want the affiliates or to send people to your website homepage or your products page and then deciding what the commission is. And the commission could be anywhere, it could be a percentage commission, percentage of the order total. It could be a fixed amount or could even be a custom gift. A lot of our customers that use our software do gift cards. I鈥檝e seen a lot of people do the virtual gift cards and that they give away and they can just easily send out to people as an incentive, so basically you just specify that program. Once you鈥檝e done gone through that, there鈥檙e a few other additional optional items that you don鈥檛 have to go through during the wizard, but that would involve setting up social sharing so you can make it easy for people to share across Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. You can always do that once you get into your dashboard, but once you go through and get through the wizard, then you鈥檙e essentially set up. We鈥檝e done all of the dirty work on the back end and all of the magic happens, right when you click that “Add app” where all of the behind the scenes wizard goes in, connects things to your 黑料门 store. You don鈥檛 have to worry about any coding or anything like that. Everything is ready to go and the tracking is set up. As soon as you click on that “Add app” button and you鈥檝e created your first program and then yeah, really the next step is just to get it set up so that you can start recruiting people for your program. For your referral program or affiliate program, whoever you want to try to recruit. We have a built-in user sign up page, or affiliate signup page, where you can link to from your site where people can just fill out a brief form with their name, their email and a password and sign up to become your affiliate. It鈥檚 really easy for them to get started and the system will generate a unique link that they would use to be able to promote your business, your 黑料门 store across virtually any platform, any social platform or email. And that鈥檚 pretty much it.

Richard: Oh, that鈥檚 awesome. So I have a quick question on that. I won鈥檛 go too deep, so don鈥檛 worry about getting into super specifics because they probably would benefit by looking at their dashboard as asked this question. But when you鈥檙e talking about the social sharing, do you provide, I mean obviously you鈥檙e tracking that this affiliate partner X is referring all this, whether it鈥檚 Facebook or Twitter or Instagram. I understand that piece, but do you get any additional data back? Like “He brought us 100 new customers, but 80 of those came from Facebook.” And so because at some point when you get deeper into it, and again, we don鈥檛 have to go super deep, but you might go, “Wow, that鈥檚 a good influencer.” But if all kinds of influencers, 80 out of a hundred are coming from Facebook, you might say: “Wow, I should on my own even be doing more Facebook ads. In this data, I鈥檓 noticing a lot of people are coming from Facebook.” So is there any sort of metrics that come back with that?

Arlen: Yeah, good question, Rich. And I鈥檓 glad you asked that because we do provide that. We do have a stats report available to the businesses in our administrative control panel. They will be able to see the social stats broken down by the affiliates. They will be able to see: “Okay, Tommy the affiliate, he sent us a hundred people through Facebook last month.” You鈥檇 be able to see that information and across the different social networks as well for Facebook, as I said, Twitter and LinkedIn. And we also have made that available to the affiliates so they can keep track of their stats as well. And their dashboard, there is a reporting area so they can see how many clicks, somebody鈥檚 sales, and conversions they鈥檙e getting across those platforms. And that鈥檚 of course if those shows are sharing platforms are enabled within your account, but you can do that. But those are optional. So that is available to both sides, administrators and the affiliates.

Jesse: Okay. Awesome. Now digging into the referral program a little bit more, cause this is probably for people that are getting started, want to dip their toes into the referral world. This seems like it could be kind of easy. They send them for the program, they get these tracking links that are ready and what do they do next? Is this like, “Okay, let鈥檚 send emails to our customers”? Or is there some sort of way to do that automated in the purchase process so that it鈥檚 an evergreen process? How do they get this gift, how to get this thing started?

Arlen: Very good question. And that鈥檚 one of the number one questions most people ask when they get the software. It鈥檚 like, what鈥檚 next? I鈥檝e got this up and running, got my referral program up and running. How am I going to get my customers recruited? So there鈥檚 a number of things that you can do. The first thing that you should do day one, once you launch it, is send out a mass email. I鈥檓 assuming that most listeners have some type of database of their customers and they have a way of communicating with them. And so you want to let everyone know that it鈥檚 purchased for me, that you just launched your referral program. Here鈥檚 the link where you sign up. This is the incentive that we鈥檙e offering. Go ahead and sign up today. That鈥檚 what you want to do definitely day one. But every one of your customers knows and even people in your, in your mailing list, maybe they鈥檙e not even customers but they鈥檝e opted into your mailing list. Maybe they鈥檙e on the fence about purchasing, but you this may be something that can spur them along as well and start promoting for you. So that鈥檚 what you want to do day one. Also, you want to make sure it鈥檚 made available and apparent to all future customers. And that can be done a number of different ways. One of the things that people don鈥檛 really realize is that with e-commerce stores in general and email in general, some of the emails that have the highest open rates are transactional emails. These are the emails that you鈥檙e sending out post-purchase. So when a customer purchases from your store, the automated emails that go out that have the receipt order details, the shipping information, all of that, those emails have some of the highest open rates because naturally when people order something, they going to double check. They鈥檙e going to say: “Okay, great, this is the right amount, does it show my delivery time? I want to get my product. I鈥檓 looking back at it.” You know, they鈥檙e examining these emails. Those have high open rates. What you want to do is in these transactional emails at a very small link or small verbiage phrase that just says that you鈥檝e got a referral program on 20% commission on all referred sales. Sign up today. Something very small and simple cause you want to make sure that you don鈥檛 pull away from the main purchase purpose. Of these emails, which is, of course, the transactional nature of it. You want to make sure everything is clear on what they ordered and you don鈥檛 want to distract from that. But you do want to include a link for people to sign up for the referral program. And that鈥檚 definitely done through those transactional emails and not only on the initial order email. You have to remember when people purchase from your store, there鈥檚 other series of emails that go out that you may be sending if your 黑料门 store, or maybe you鈥檙e sending a post-purchase email, maybe you鈥檙e sending a delivery confirmation email. If you鈥檙e sending those emails out. Again, those have a high open rate as well. Go ahead and include your signup link in those emails. And that would say those are the two main ways to really get started and start exposing your current customer base and then all new customers moving forward.

Jesse: Yeah, Arlen, I think that鈥檚 great advice. They鈥檙e easy wins, right? I talked to a lot of merchants and I know that people, they look at their website a lot. They look at their Facebook and they look at Instagram, but they probably do not look at their thing. Basically, it鈥檚 a thank you or receipt, email. Nobody looks at that because you just don鈥檛 really see it that often cause you鈥檙e not buying from your own store very often. But you鈥檙e right though, that is like prime real estate. People look at that. They just ordered, they鈥檙e excited. They鈥檙e still in the rush and even that. If you do a post-purchase, like a two week follow up email, that鈥檚 another good time for that. And those are, it鈥檚 very easy to edit that and add a little link in there. And people do open those where they maybe don鈥檛 open your promotional emails quite as much. Unfortunately, that鈥檚 just the reality. Awesome tip there. I think for people that are listening, that鈥檚 a prime real estate that is probably not used. And why not have your customers share this with other people and encourage them by giving them a little discount or percent off or bonus program, whatever. So cool. That鈥檚 covered the referral program pretty well. Now that鈥檚 talking to current customers. Let鈥檚 say you want to take this a little bit further and you want to recruit influencers, and really build this affiliate program. What are the top ways to find influencers?

Arlen: It is a great question but before I answer that, I want to just really define what an influencer is it because a lot of people who have a little misnomer anytime you hear about influences. I think most people think about the well-known people get all of these celebrities that are promoting these brands, the Kim Kardashians of the world, a lot of these top stars, top entertainers, athletes. They are influencers because they do promote brands. And of course, they鈥檙e incentivized for doing it, they鈥檙e not doing it just for the hell. They鈥檙e getting paid a pretty big check to do it. But those are not the only influencers, the influencers really start at the very bottom of the bottom local level, which I defined as like a local influencer. It鈥檚 like me and you, all three of us here. We are all on this podcast right now. We鈥檙e all influences in our respect because we all have our own list. Everybody listening actually to this is an influencer because we all have social contacts within our own circle and people that listen to what we say and are keeping an eye on what we got going on. So at a very low level, you are an influencer, everyone鈥檚 an influencer able to spread the word and you have anywhere between 0 and a thousand followers. That鈥檚 what鈥檚 a local influencer. The next level up I would say is a micro influencer, which is the next level up that somebody that has some type of community following anywhere between 1000 and 10000 followers, but they have a high level of engagement with their community and people that they know. They may be an expert in a certain area and influencer and let鈥檚 say the world of marketing could be someone that has a marketing blog and he has anywhere between 1000 to 10,000 subscribers and people are listening to what he says. So that鈥檚 micro influencers. The next level up is a macro influencer and these are people that are bullet bigger. They have a certain follower base that is typically in a specific niche which would be maybe traveling, fashion, fitness, or food and that鈥檚 anywhere between, they have anywhere between 10 and a million followers. As I said, the micro influencer. And at the very high level what I meant at the beginning, these super celebrities that have a million plus followers. There are several levels of where you can hit and in order to find these there鈥檚 a number of ways that you can do it. these days there seems like there鈥檚 one of these types of sites popping up all the time and I鈥檝e seen several of them where they鈥檙e called Influencer Directory. so if you want to just get your feet wet and really just say: “Okay what are some influences in my space?” Maybe I鈥檓 selling Fitness Products. What are some influences that are different levels that I can try to approach with my affiliate program? And so there鈥檚 one side call, theinfluenster.com actually it is a pretty well-known influencer database and network. And that鈥檚 just one of them. There鈥檚 a ton of other ones. You can just do a search for influencer network and there鈥檚 a lot on. there some free ones as well where they have free plans, you can get in there and get your feet wet. So that鈥檚 one way to do it. Another way to do it is just to do the old school method. Just do your old own research and I鈥檒l give you a quick example. Let鈥檚 say you鈥檙e in the fashion space and let鈥檚 say you sell fashions and you鈥檙e based out of Chicago. one way you can do it as maybe try to approach bloggers in Chicago, fashion bloggers in Chicago. A quick little hack. I guess you could say not a lot of people spend a lot of time doing is to go to Instagram and search hashtags. So you can search for a hashtag. that example for Chicago fashion bloggers and believe it or not you鈥檙e going to find people that have used that hashtag and obviously if anyone uses that hashtag, nine times out of 10, there are bloggers and they鈥檙e blogging about Chicago fashions. So these are people that are influencers, they have an audience and that you could easily approach to promote your products and services. And so those are just some quick tips as far as finding influencers and isolating them and getting them to let you do your pitch so you can get them to promote your products or services.

Jesse: I think that鈥檚 great for people listening. Maybe not every single product out there is going to be in tune with the influencer world, but I think there鈥檚 a pretty big majority of them. You mentioned fashion, food, travel, those aren鈥檛 even niches, those are just giant categories. And I think this is a way to really jump start your business. If you鈥檙e thinking: “Hey, what should I do next? I鈥檝e already tried this or tried that”. Affiliate marketing, influencer marketing can be a way to really really take things off. But you need to track it and you need to pay the influencers as well. And this is a way that they can get paid without you necessarily having to give the money up front.

Arlen: Right. That鈥檚 very key. And because I know a lot of the businesses that are listening are like “Okay, how do you pay these guys?” And that鈥檚 the beauty of the affiliate marketing. It鈥檚 typically paper performance, they鈥檙e going to get paid on what they send you, what sales that they send you. And that鈥檚 something that I know is it鈥檚 definitely a lot more palatable for most businesses because there鈥檚 no upfront money that they鈥檙e paying.

Jesse: For sure. I was thinking, have this number in my mind like influencing start at $5,000 to get people to do stuff for you. I don鈥檛 have $5,000 but if you find somebody that鈥檚 maybe not as big and they鈥檙e willing to do this paper for performance. That鈥檚 a nice way to get started.

Arlen: Yep. Definitely.

Richard: There might even be, let鈥檚 just call it training wheels for lack of a better word that comes to mind right now where you have product X, you see they have your market. You think I probably get X fits for their market. Let鈥檚 just say it鈥檚 back to Sally鈥檚 pancakes and you just reach out to Sally and you say: “Sally, you make amazing pancakes, I鈥檝e used your recipes 27 times. They鈥檙e amazing. I want to send you one of my spatulas. I鈥檓 a huge fan of pancakes too, I got a business”. And you literally just give her one of your spatulas. I鈥檓 not saying she鈥檚 definitely going to say anything but if you start the organic process that you鈥檙e just being a nice person in a business and you鈥檙e not necessarily asking for something back from her. “Just give me some honest feedback. And by the way, you鈥檙e more than welcome to just DM me, you don鈥檛 have to say anything publicly, winky face. Go ahead if you want too.” Maybe now you鈥檙e starting at this organic relationship with this person in a natural way that it really happens. You really are being authentic. It鈥檚 like, well, I used this pancake spatula and blah blah and then so all of a sudden no affiliate links yet at all and maybe you get 30 more people to come to your business. And now you DM Sally back. And you say: “Dang, Sally, you just posted this one thing and thank you so much. I appreciate it. It was amazing and I got 30 more people. I don鈥檛 know if it came from you or not, but it was the day you said something. So just want to let you know since you seem to like it if you want to do an affiliate, I鈥檇 love to give you something back.” Right, and so all that was not rehearsed. It was real, you don鈥檛 have to spend the $5,000 or whatever it is. We don鈥檛 know, we just pick that number out. But I think that would be a way that someone could actually start that process in a natural, just the way it happens in the real world.

Arlen: Definitely. There was a good word that you used, Rich, organic. Is your fan of their product? Like you said those pancakes, really good and safe. Do you know this would be a good fit? Let me just send you some product and that鈥檚 what it鈥檚 about. It does take due diligence because most business owners are busy. You don鈥檛 do get approached a lot but it鈥檚 just like anything you鈥檝e got to do the follow-up, follow-through and if it鈥檚 meant to come to fruition are, you鈥檒l be able to have an organic relationship and then take it from there.

Jesse: Yeah, I think this is all really really helpful for people are listening, they haven鈥檛 really thought about affiliate marketing. So for people are listening, you probably know where to go. go to the App Market inside your 黑料门 control panel. Arlen, if people want to find out more about you, where鈥檚 a place they can learn more about OSI?

Arlen: Sure. The quick link to get to for people I listening is just get OSI.com. You can go there to go to our main site to find out all about us. Reach out to me. I鈥檓 actually available on Twitter. You could just @askArlen is my Twitter handle. You can always send me a tweet or message there. Other than that, we have a whole plethora of resources on our website and have chat agents available. So if anybody listening has any other specific questions that want to dig a lot deeper, you can hop onto the live chat on the website. Or give us a call and we鈥檒l be glad to help you out.

Jesse: Awesome. I saw the live chat on the website and with the Twitter handle @askArlen you are asking for some questions.

Arlen: I鈥檓 used to it. So I got it. I don鈥檛 mind any of the questions cuz I love helping business owners and provide guidance in this whole e-commerce marketing space because it鈥檚 a lot to navigate and I love to provide insight.

Jesse: Even on that e-commerce marketing, you also host a podcast, the e-commerce marketing podcast.

Arlen: That is true, thanks for mentioning that and at the e-commerce marketing podcast, you can see our whole list of episodes. We鈥檝e published over 120+ episode over the past I鈥檇 say five years or so. And I interviewed a marketing expert and I had Jesse on not too long ago. Jesse, that was an awesome episode, I really appreciate you coming on. You can check out Jessie on the e-commerce marketing podcast. Check that out and a number of other very notable people that have shared some really great information about e-commerce marketing.

Jesse: Awesome. I just wanted to get notable attached to my name. (laughing) So I appreciate that.

Arlen: Not a problem. You鈥檙e definitely among the notables that I鈥檝e had for sure.

Jesse: Awesome. Rich, any last questions here for Arlen?

Richard: No, I鈥檓 just I鈥檓 excited. I look forward to checking it out a little bit myself too. I definitely believe in it. You鈥檙e going to have people that are talking to your point earlier, Arlen. You鈥檙e going to have people talking about your business anyway, you might as well give them away to benefit additionally.

Arlen: That鈥檚 correct.

Jesse: All right, awesome, Arlen, really appreciate you being on the show.

Arlen: Thank you guys. I appreciate the opportunity.

Richard: Thank you, Arlen.