The 黑料门
Most 黑料门 guests take the opposite journey, so you can hear the different challenges Ken encountered. In addition, Jesse and Rich give advice on shipping pricing strategies, home page messaging, and more.
Show Notes
- Selling organic birdseed
- Engaging people in an environmental cause
- Selling on marketplaces
- Home page messaging and free shipping
- Subscriptions for an online store
- Bonus from Ken: use the code ECWIDPOD10 for 10% off your order on .
Transcript
Richard: Our guest has had a business for a long time and is moving from the B2B space into the B2C space. It鈥檒l be interesting to hear that path and that story.
Jesse: Let鈥檚 bring him on. Ken Dallmier! Ken, how do you start this thing?
Selling organic birdseed
Ken: Hello, guys! Prairie Melody started about a year ago to provide
Jesse: I think you might be surprised that we want to hear some real tips and advice from you. Now, even coming from you had a big legitimate business prior to this. Starting even further back with the with Clarkson grain. Were you always in the organic grain business?
Ken: We were one of the first to get into that business. We鈥檝e been in it since the late 90s. OK. And so one of the pioneers, we helped to write the rules. Now we鈥檙e into space where we鈥檙e trying to take that next step and go directly to the consumer.
Jesse: Got it. You mentioned helping farmers make the transition. This is southern Illinois, so I imagine it鈥檚 soybeans and corn, right?
Ken: Yeah, pretty straightforward. We have the largest set of sunflower fields in Illinois. A quarter of a mile by a quarter of a mile is 160 acres, and we have two or three of those fields, and they鈥檙e really stunning whenever they come into flower. The surprising thing to me was as we go in and we take some Instagram pictures, the field would be literally buzzing. Sunflowers are pollinated primarily by bees. All of that activity and all that life going around was exciting. And then you hear that airplanes often off in the distance and you think: “Well, they鈥檙e not gonna come into here because that鈥檚 part of the production.” That鈥檚 how we differentiate in the market.
Jesse: So the end product is primarily sunflower seeds. That鈥檚 the product.
Ken: Correct. Pesticide free, no neonicotinoid sunflowers, and primarily for birdseed. The funny thing is, people go into birdseed, and then they think: “Well, maybe this would be something my backyard chickens would like.” And it got into chicken treats, and people will grow them for microgreens. And we have people in Alaska who purchase our sunflower seeds for microgreens in the wintertime.
Jesse: So it ends up in a lot of different places. Sunflower seeds, is that for all types of birds? Is it a particular type of bird that鈥檚 attracted to that?
Ken: Sure. Sunflower seeds are more for the cardinals and the gross beaks, the finches, and that sort of thing. What it discourages is the sparrows and the starlings and things that oftentimes people don鈥檛 particularly care to have at their bird feeders. For me, it鈥檚 helpful because the part of what I enjoy are specific types of birds that we can bring in.
Jesse: Awesome. So we want to bring in the right kind of birds here, and we don鈥檛 want to be poisoning them with pesticides and whatnot.
Ken: There鈥檚 a growing body of a scientific knowledge now that certain types of pesticides, the neonicotinoids have been coming under pressure here lately that at high dose and as well as at low dose are showing a detrimental effect to not only pollinators, the bees, and things, but also at low dose with migratory birds. Whenever those types of studies hit the popular press, we get a lot of interest. One of the interesting parts about Prairie Melody is we used Amazon for this, to understand where people were interested in us because you can you can figure it out and put it up on a map. And it鈥檚 not a coast thing, nor is it really a northern thing. In the wintertime we sell. Matter of fact, we sold a few bags just recently around your area. So for those of you who don鈥檛 have winter, there are still people who鈥檇 like to have birds come into their backyard. It鈥檚 not really geographically segregating, but it helps us to understand that whole market better.
Jesse: Makes sense. I knew at a basic level, pesticides — bad, organic — good.
Ken: And it鈥檚 a good way for us to differentiate ourselves in the market. Otherwise, you鈥檙e selling a commodity. Yep. And then it鈥檚 then it鈥檚 a price driver. Yep.
Jesse: Speaking of the price here, how much more does it cost to buy or organic versus
Ken: Very often it鈥檚 not quite 2X. It鈥檚 probably
Jesse: Makes perfect sense. I mean, people that want birds in their backyard are probably going to be more likely to be sensitive to organic products and pain for the quality. Particularly when it鈥檚 not one hundred dollars versus one hundred fifty dollars. We鈥檙e talking, $5 instead of $3.50. Right.
Engaging people in an environmental cause
Ken: One of the stores that we just had our big first order, it was really exciting, it was a chain of those 99 cents only. And they are a value store, and they challenged us on the price a bit, but the reason they wanted to do that was so that their customers could engage in an environmental awareness in their space and at a price point they could afford. We worked with them, and we found a way to package a
Without that challenge from
It was exciting. We walked in, and as they were packaging the material, they would just light up. The folks who would do it. They just light up. “Hey, Mr. Dallmier, how are you? Can I do birdseed today?” It was awesome. If you were having a bad day at the office, you went into town and watched them do that. It was exciting. So we took a video, we put it on YouTube, and put it on our blog. It was great.
Jesse: Great to hear. You have a big sale and probably not making the margin you would have liked to make. So you have to figure out a way to deliver the product. That opened up this great opportunity for you. It was a great opportunity for everybody. Awesome to hear.
Selling on marketplaces
Jesse: I think what鈥檚 interesting here is like Richard mentioned during our intro here, a lot of our customers start online. You started with a really B2B business moving into B2C, but you started that retail first. You鈥檙e into brick and mortar. And then you mentioned some of the marketplaces. Tell our listeners, how was it selling on these marketplaces?
Ken: Well, it was jumping in the pool at the deep end. We were able to leverage some of the things that we normally do, which is shipping and that sort of thing. But it also allowed us to raise that level a bit, because then you鈥檙e working with the electronic document interchange, the EDI, and you鈥檙e working at a different scale.
At first, it was really quite challenging. So that鈥檚 what we had to learn. Now as we bring some of those learnings into the core business, we鈥檙e able to take some of those platforms, some of those EDI platforms, and engage it with our especially with our international customers, that it helps us be much more efficient back and forth with some of the documents and some of the other pieces and how we deal with time zones.
But it was a bit of a challenge. We have sunflowers, you plant them in the spring, you harvest them in the fall, and then you have a whole acre full of inventory. So now you鈥檝e got this inventory to sort through. You can鈥檛 piecemeal in, piecemeal out. There were also some of the pieces around. How do you deal with the big platforms? What do you think about inventory? How do you ship? Our advantage was we already knew what an LTL meant, and how to engage and do some of those things. But there were a lot of those pieces around. OK. You now have this product. What margin do you really need? Do you need to sell a whole bunch at a small margin? Do you need to sell a few and a larger margin? How do you deal with all of those pieces?
Richard: And I think one of the challenges is, I don鈥檛 remember the exact timeline there, but you were just starting in the process of building the brand. So here you are in a big marketplace where it鈥檚 mostly looked at as a commodity on the marketplace and they don鈥檛 know you鈥檙e wanting to give back. They don鈥檛 know the legacy story, the lifetime story. And I can鈥檛 remember what the tagline was. You said something about helping change the world one backyard at a time. They don鈥檛 know that yet in the marketplace. They鈥檙e just right in a $7 one, in a $2 one, they鈥檙e like: “I want the $2 one”.
Ken: On the front page of our product, we had to really think about what does that bag looks like and how does a picture tell why it鈥檚 different. We designed the bag, designed packaging. Took a little bit for Amazon to accept that package, as it鈥檚 the front page because it鈥檚 got a little bit too much stuff on it. But once they understood it, that鈥檚 also why we chose 黑料门, frankly, because it could integrate into our work site quite simply. We needed that content site to tell the story. For the most part, once people understand, go into the site, and start bopping through the site, they get educated. They understand. Now, then it鈥檚 a matter of how do we efficiently do the transaction? That was the integration. Now we鈥檙e trying to figure out, OK, how do we do that even more efficiently? Even better yet.
Richard: One of the things I don鈥檛 know where you went ahead with it Jesse, but we could talk to you forever. Because my parents started one of the first health food stores out there. So I totally get organic, and there are just so many ways we could go, but we really want to add value back to you. We always try to do that with the merchants. I don鈥檛 know if you have any additional questions or if you want to go into some suggestions or questions.
Jesse: Yeah, we mentioned marketplaces. So for the listeners, I want to make sure we mentioned marketplaces. For the listeners, we鈥檙e talking about selling on Amazon, and where else did you sell? What other marketplaces?
Ken: So we are just getting our feet wet now with Chewy.com with Walmart.com, a couple of others. The other dot coms are also in some of the local bricks and mortar stores, which are great. They鈥檙e my canary in the coal mine. We love our bricks and mortar stores. They鈥檒l give it to me straight up. “This isn鈥檛 working yet” or “I need more of that” or whatever.
The other thing that we like to do is we like to do fundraisers to help support societies, FFA chapters for age clubs. Pretty much anybody tired of the usual magazine and wrapping paper drag. And we were able to use 黑料门 too. Actually, we were able to use the options tab on the product page so that ah we had multiple fundraisers, and they could click which fundraiser to send it to. That was actually one of the things that I utilized within 黑料门 that I couldn鈥檛 find in other places. It was helpful.
Jesse: By the way, actually I even have an idea for you that I didn鈥檛 think of before. If you have somebody that has a bigger fundraiser and they want to have it on their website, it would be fairly easy to give them their own instance of an 黑料门 store, and they could have it on their particular site. You only have two or three products for them. Maybe they increase the price a little bit. Put it on their website. That鈥檚 just an option for you, particularly on the bigger ones, there鈥檚 a little bit of work there.
Ken: What makes it nice is the website does all of the taxes and does all of those things, so that the person running the fundraiser, all they have to do is announce it and coordinate final delivery. That鈥檚 all they need to do. It works out well.
Jesse: That鈥檚 awesome. That鈥檚 a good usage of that. I know there鈥檚 a little bit of margin built in there too, which you need for fundraisers like everybody. There has to be margin in order for these to work. We could keep talking about marketplaces, but I like the feedback you gave that like, hey, yeah, it wasn鈥檛 that easy. The first time you dive into the pdf鈥檚 you get from Amazon and how you got to pack up a pallet. It鈥檚 mundane the first time. So just everybody listens and be prepared. You just read it, and you want to follow the rules.
Ken: Chewy is the same way, Walmart鈥檚 the same way. They鈥檝e got their own process. And that鈥檚 how it goes. And packing pallets, some of them will be a certain height. And that鈥檚 as far as you can go. Of course, weights are a thing. And with birdseed, we鈥檙e big and heavy as opposed to widgets, which are small and light. So we do have to pay attention.
Home page messaging and free shipping
Jesse: We鈥檙e gonna shift over to the website here to give people some ideas. The first thing we noticed here when we went to your home page, I didn鈥檛 know where to go. I clicked on it. Now I get it. We got the header and now I see the Online Store and About. There鈥檚 just one click that some people might not get. “What do I do?” And I see the free sample. That鈥檚 great. But then you might be just giving out free samples instead of people buying the five pound bag. So just a thought there. But I mean the pictures are nice. You鈥檙e starting out at a good spot.
Now, when I go into the online store, you鈥檝e probably heard our podcast or thought about shipping deeply. So we鈥檙e gonna talk about shipping. Your product is heavy, and it even has the volume to it. So it鈥檚 not a
Ken: Say from Illinois to ship it out to the West Coast. The best way for me to do that for small packages is through the post office. Because they have flat rate shipping. Now the 40 pound bag. That鈥檚 a different matter. You鈥檙e not going to crunch a
Richard: We鈥檝e been trained, but it鈥檚 not fair.
Jesse: You said there鈥檚 no such thing as free shipping. I agree. It鈥檚 baked in shipping. There are two options here. For people listening here, I鈥檓 looking at Prairie Melody. It鈥檚 a 2.75 clear bag of black oil sunflower birdseed, 4.99. So shipping is probably five bucks in a flat rate, right? Is that eight bucks? Clearly, you can鈥檛 spend eight dollars on shipping. And lose $3 before you bought one birdseed. I get that it can鈥檛 be free across the board or you can鈥檛 really charge 13 for that, but I think maybe a happy medium here is to have free shipping at a trigger price, right? Like say it鈥檚 30 bucks or $50, that鈥檚 up to you, and that鈥檚 for everybody listening too, that is up to you to figure it out. Like it鈥檚 not at $5 probably because it cost $8 to ship or no matter what you鈥檙e always in for $5 shipping. I mean, there鈥檚 nothing really less than $5 shipping now. I鈥檓 just guessing, you know, like maybe it鈥檚 25, 30 bucks and that sort of matches what target would be. Amazon, if you鈥檙e not on Prime, I think is $25 now? That鈥檚 a number for you; people come to expect, even the people that are on the prime and expect their toothbrush delivered in one hour for free. Sorry, we鈥檙e all stuck on, right?
Ken: Yeah. I mean, I鈥檓 the same. “Oh man, two days. Really?” (laughing)
Jesse: And then you on the merchant site, you鈥檙e like: “Man, that鈥檚 really expensive to get it there.” That鈥檚 just the thought; I could see $25 or $30 as a price. And the advantage of that is that for the people that are buying the four 99 bags when they see shipping is X amount of dollars, they鈥檙e like: “Well, I could just buy the $25 version and get it for free.” Like they might do that math and increase their basket size.
Part of the reason I say that is that you have certain products that have free shipping baked in, and you have free shipping in the name of the product. I get it by the way, it鈥檚 not a criticism, it鈥檚 just now when I see the five pound bag is now 19.99 but it should be twice as much as the 4.99, but I get it includes free shipping. So it鈥檚 a little confusing. It鈥檚 confusing. Just something I see that could be an improvement to help increase basket size, and you want to remove confusion from a customer. If they鈥檙e confused, they鈥檙e going to bounce, they鈥檙e going to leave.
Subscriptions for an online store
Ken: Right, right. The other thing that I wish we could do is since we have both on our bird seed side and our chicken feed side, they鈥檙e consumable, and they consume at a pretty normal rate. And I鈥檝e had people ask: “Can we subscribe and save?” Which is one of the things that Chewy does really quite well. That鈥檚 something I don鈥檛 know how to do, I guess with 黑料门. Because they just want it to show up on their doorstep once every three weeks. Everybody鈥檚 happy. Northern customers generally will slow down bird feeding after the snow melts. Now our Southern customers, of course, it never snows. So they鈥檙e much more constant. But that helps us not to see that cycle. Is there a way to make my 黑料门 store subscribe and save so that in three weeks, you just go with it?
Jesse: Yup. We鈥檙e going to have to take you offline for that one because it depends on what you use for payment. It depends on the amount of how you want a subscription to work. So absolutely. I get the business reason is for sure you want to do this, we want to get subscriptions going, but the
Ken: Yes, I do. It comes direct, either direct or through organic.
Richard: Yeah. Someone probably sees this in the brick and mortar store, or here鈥檚 the story somewhere else and just goes directly to your website?
Ken: Right.
Jesse: Or they see it on Amazon, and they Google it.
Ken: Yup. So they want to learn more. “Why is this more expensive?”
User-generated content
Richard: Got it. So that鈥檚 actually where I was going to go to two quick suggestions. I would make some sort of video on your site that they see right away that tells that story. And that story can be used in multiple places. It doesn鈥檛 have to only live on your site. So I think just somebody who鈥檚 looking this up somewhere else that doesn鈥檛 have the time. If a picture says a thousand words, then how many words does a video say? Especially if you keep it. And then secondarily, it would definitely make sure, and again, we鈥檒l talk to you more offline, but get that Instagram integrated more and probably do more contests because this is an unbelievable opportunity for
Jesse: Now with the Instagram thing, you can take that post with your product so people can go there. And I think that starts to tell the story. You had mentioned you have the brand story and message. So we want to help you bring that out to the front of the site and all that. Those sales you get from Amazon, and the marketplace is you want them to buy from your website so you鈥檙e not paying that fee and we can get the subscription going. And so anyway, I wanna wrap it up here. Rich?
Richard: As I said, there are no last questions, but we will definitely be in touch. You have so many opportunities and we love that there鈥檚 just so many elements of giving back, even the pun of, with the better food, the birds will be giving back to the environment. (laughing) We鈥檒l be in touch with you, and we鈥檒l let you know when the episode comes out and look forward to talking with you.
