黑料门

黑料门 enables the Miller Machine to go on the road for a year Jesse and Rich hear from Billy Miller on building his business in an extremely small niche — orchestral drum setups that need mounted triangles and finger cymbals.

• Building a store on Rapid Weaver
• Google Shopping
• SEO from photos of drum setup
• Shipstation for shipping and labels

The fun part is learning how Billy is taking his family and business on the road for a year-long RV trip.

Show notes

Transcript

Jesse: Richie, Happy Friday!

Richard: Happy Friday. It鈥檚 not so sunny as it usually is, but we鈥檒l make it a bright day. How about that?

Jesse: Well, I like it. Our personalities will brighten the day or something. I don鈥檛 know. That鈥檚 a little cheesy but hey, we鈥檝e been kind of brain overload from social media marketing world. It鈥檚 been all e-commerce, all social media, just traffic and all sorts of crazy stuff. I鈥檓 ready to apply a lot of these things and I have all these nice little tips and tricks to share over the next few pods when appropriate. I don鈥檛 want to do a brain dump on the podcast but yeah, awesome stuff. So I鈥檓 excited we had a Pat Flynn event for people that know him, who wrote the book “Will It Fly?” That was awesome, getting to network.

Richard: Another podcast.

Jesse: Yes, another podcast and some other podcasters. I had never met Molly Pittman or Ralph Burns. They both did their own, what are you calling, Bae Breakout sessions at that, and just really good stuff about chatbots on Facebook ads and so I鈥檒l be sharing that in the future. Man, it was good. I鈥檓 ready to talk more e-commerce, more online marketing today. And I think you know, last week, this is what our favorite, this is the reason we do this is that we love talking to merchants about their business, trying to help them and seeing what they鈥檙e doing. So we get to do another one today, Rich.

Richard: Yeah, it鈥檚 good and not only do we get to talk to a merchant today, but we get to talk to a merchant that actually has not only listens to the 黑料门 E-commerce Show, but it sounds as if he listened to them all. So we鈥檒l ask him what has been his favorite one so far. But let鈥檚 go ahead and bring them on.

Jesse: All right. Billy Miller, welcome to the show.

Billy: Thank you. Thanks, Jesse.

Jesse: Alright, so Billy, let鈥檚 start with your website, what site do you own? What business do you own?

Billy: It鈥檚 the  and I sell I manufacture and sell a triangle machine and a finger cymbal machine that are used in for drummers and percussionist. These two machines are mainly used in theatre, pitwork for musical theatre shows that are done all over the country.

Jesse: That鈥檚 awesome. That鈥檚 another reason why we were super excited to talk to you. Because it鈥檇 be really hard to find a smaller niche, I would think. (laughing)

Richard: We love niches, right? The riches are in the niches. So, what got you started with this? Did you just all of a sudden decide they needed this or have been had you been working in orchestras before?

Billy: It was something that I needed. We live in Seattle now but before that, we were in New York City for about eighteen years and I was playing drums and percussion for Broadway shows and it was a show that I did back in 2001, where it was a multiple setup. So I had a drum set and timpani and mallards and all these things and I had to go from like a snare drum to the timpani to play a triangle. And I didn鈥檛 want to hit it with the stick because it鈥檚 not a great sound. And I thought, well, I really need to come up with something, a way to play this triangle that I can hit that, that it can be with a bitter and the bitter can be mounted. So I don鈥檛 have to look for and pick it up and play. So it was the show follies back in 2001 where I did the original design, which is different than how it is now. But that was where it came from. And that was the beginning of the whole thing.

Jesse: Got it. I think that鈥檚 awesome for everybody listening. The first part of that is that you鈥檙e solving your own problem. You realized like I say, I鈥檓 laughing because it鈥檚 so obscure. Like I at this particular time, I need to play a triangle and I need to find the thing to hit with.

Richard: I don鈥檛 wanna use my stick, so I need to mount that. But that just shows also too, to Jesse鈥檚 point. They鈥檙e solving your own problem. But what was the first step when you started to do this? Did you think, or you weren鈥檛 at all thinking about the business yet? Right? This was a “I鈥檓 just solving my own problem.”

Billy: Yeah, exactly. And I solved it for that show. And I used it a little bit here and there. But it wasn鈥檛 until in 2003 where I started getting some interest from some of the people. When you鈥檙e playing a Broadway show, you have, let鈥檚 say I take off for the night, I have a sub, I have somebody come in and play the show or I have friends come in and watch me play and they would see this machine. “That鈥檚 really interesting.” And then there was a little bit of interest. For the first version of it, I ended up, I still have the list of the ten people that have them. I sold them this machine. It was like between 2003-2005. And at that point, I鈥檓 like, oh, wow, there鈥檚 something here. People are interested. And then at that point I actually redesigned it. It was basically the same concept, but I had to make it. It just was a very crude version of it. I鈥檓 like, okay, I really need to sort of up the game, redesign it, make it something that I feel like I could sell throughout the country, and be happy with that. So that was evolution when I came, basically from 2005 and I redesigned it, it is sort of the version that it is now.

Jesse: That鈥檚 perfect. You鈥檙e literally just, I mean you lived in New York, so you鈥檙e not tinkering in your garage. That鈥檚 how it works. Sort of like a garage tinkerer where like hey, I need this and I鈥檓 gonna try to build it. And maybe there鈥檚 some wood and some duct tape at first. I know it wasn鈥檛 but. (laughing)

Billy: No, it was made out of wood.

Jesse: Ok, yeah.

Billy: It was made out of pieces of wood and some other found parts here and there. Yeah, it was pretty crude. It did what it needed to do. And the concept was there. I just needed to refine it.

Jesse: That鈥檚 great. And there鈥檚 a couple of years here where you weren鈥檛 thinking, this is the business that I鈥檓 building. This is just I need to play a triangle and a finger cymbal, and other people see it. That鈥檚 the perfect way to start a product.

Richard: And at what point, what did you say? I noticed you said something that I can鈥檛 remember exactly. Was it like 10-13 customers? Something like that? You start to realize, hey, other people might be interested in this.

Billy: Well, it was the first version that I did. I sold ten of them. And then yes, at that point, like, wow, that鈥檚 interesting, there seems to be interest. And at that point, it was like I need to not redesign it, but make it something that I could sell, that I would feel comfortable selling to other people, just not sort of my circle of friends that were in in the city. So

Richard: Is there some sort of a forum or association where you could start to get feedback on that? Or how did you get that process started to get the word out other than people just seeing you?

Billy: It was basically just that way. It was through the theater stuff, it got to the point where some of the rental houses in the city were buying them from me. And then when a show went out, they would send one of these triangle machines with that show. It would be part of the setup and it just started getting out sort of through that way. There wasn鈥檛 really any advertising, there really wasn鈥檛 anything else, at that point, it was basically just sort of word of mouth through guys in New York City. Oh, and one other thing I did approach, there was a drum shop there. The Drummer鈥檚 World be a very good friend of mine. I went and said, Berry, would you be willing to sell this thing? He鈥檚 like, I don鈥檛 know. He set it upon the floor and that actually helped a lot too. So people that were just even people that were coming up from outside the US would come and see this thing. And I think that helped also.

Jesse: And that store, The Drummer鈥檚 World, is that like the mecca of the musical an orchestra world or is it just, I鈥檓 not aware of it from living in San Diego.

Billy: Well, it鈥檚 no longer there. He still has an online store, but it was like the mecca for the drummers and percussionist, people from all over the world. If they came to New York, they would go see Barry and go to The Drummer鈥檚 World and see what he had, because he had all these very unique things. He was like the only person that had that. So you could see this stuff on. And he was such a cool guy. We just go out and chat and see people and it was a place to hang out also.

Richard: Did you start to see once that happened that people potentially wanted to use this in a different way? Now I鈥檓 just making something up but maybe you鈥檙e playing to musical and it鈥檚 “Mary Poppins” and you needed to “bing” at this one particular time and it鈥檚 made for that, for solving your purpose. But did you start to see, once it got on the floor that people would use this same product in a different unique way?

Billy: A little bit. Yeah, a little bit, but it is mainly for that theater world. People use it in smaller percussion setups, maybe, small groups, maybe percussion ensembles and things like that. Its intent was really for the theater stuff. I have, however, I got a call from another company, a bigger company to design a new product, which I did in 2017. And that one is geared more towards a sort of orchestral symphonic chamber groups. It has lots of different adjustments than the original machine does. The net is wider, but then that鈥檚 not gonna be super wide. I think for this, as you mentioned before, because it is that small niche of people that use it.

Richard: The good thing is I鈥檓 sure there are not just orchestras in America, right?

Billy: Yeah.

Richard: There鈥檚 plenty of them all. If once you get the word out. So going online is a good thing. At what point did you start to look into doing it in the online space?

Billy: I did it originally through the Apple app, iWeb. I set up a little website, and I got a handful of orders.

Jesse: iWeb! What year are we talking about here? This is going back. I鈥檓 aware of it, but that鈥檚 all schools.

Billy: It was part of iLive which was photos and iMovie, and I went and I can鈥檛 even remember how long ago that was. I could look it up but I even have the original website. I didn鈥檛 have like screen grabs that I did on the original website. But that would have been in鈥�

Jesse: 2007-2008-ish, or something like that?

Billy: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, going back that far.

Jesse: You got started. That鈥檚 the most important thing.

Billy: Well, that was a thing. Yeah, I got something up. It was just a single page. I don鈥檛 remember. It was probably just through PayPal at the time. That was the start of it, but it wasn鈥檛 really. The whole New York stuff I could sort of dabble in it. But we had a tiny apartment, it was a five hundred fifty square foot apartment. I couldn鈥檛 really do too much there. When we eventually had kids, I had to move all my equipment out to my brothers in Red Hook. And that was like a 45-minute subway ride. So to be able to do this job full time, I just wasn鈥檛 able to because I was playing shows, I was taking care of the kids, doing all the things that we have to do. It really wasn鈥檛 the full-time thing until we got here in Seattle, which has been about five years. So once we got here, I was able to set up a shop down in the basement and actually make these things in larger quantities and look at more advertising or just ways to increase the sales. And then I had that opportunity to make that new machine as well, which I would never been able to do if I was still in New York. That was also kind of an added bonus of moving to Seattle.

Jesse: Got it. So about five years ago you were starting to, there鈥檚 kids you bounce and hitting the walls and a five hundred fifty square foot apartment. Time to move to a house. And now you got your real tinker workshop in the basement set up and then it鈥檚 time to get a little bit bigger. So yeah, I love it. I love it. And then it also helped you improve your product, that鈥檚 important.

Billy: Yes, very much, very much, which I was very happy about because I was always like, I really need to do this, I wanted to change that but it was just too hard. It was just a matter of keeping up with the sales, just getting them out the door.

Jesse: You have to pack and ship and get stuff to the post office. That鈥檚 the part of the grind. And when you move moved to Seattle is that the time you took the website and the online presence into the next level or鈥�?

Billy: It was the start of, I did switch, I鈥檓 trying to remember what I was using up until. I guess I started using this app called Rapid Weaver to build the site. And I was using a Cartloom as my e-commerce. That was 2015 through 28th of October of last year. That鈥檚 what I was using. That helped bring me up to another level. As I was developing this other product, there were so many things going on. And then we started talking about this road trip, which I guess was just the impetus to look to come up with, to end up using 黑料门, which is what I started using. Switching from Cartloom to 黑料门 last October. That allowed me to expand even greater in terms of all this other stuff and also do this trip that we鈥檝e got coming up.

Jesse: Awesome. We鈥檒l get back to the trip in a second. You had several years with Rapid Weaver and that was your CMS. That鈥檚 not a common one, but I鈥檝e heard of it. Um. I definitely want to take a look at it now that, we鈥檒l be linking all the Rapid Weaver articles to this blog so people can check it out. What was good about Rapid Weaver? Somebody recommended it to you and that鈥檚 where you started, how did you end up there?

Billy: It鈥檚 an Apple based software and since I used this, I just mixed, and it鈥檚 also it鈥檚 not a subscription. I could build what I wanted to build. I didn鈥檛 have to use a template. It lives on the computer. I don鈥檛 have to, you know, we鈥檙e pressing those other apps. They鈥檙e all sort of cloud-based. And I wanted something that I could have on my computer and I could upload and I can jigger with it, which I do all the time, hold to the changing thing. And I just found it an easy platform for me to work on.

Jesse: No, that鈥檚 good. I mean I always like to find out what else is out there. We work on so many platforms and a lot of people do stick with the usual suspects. But good to hear that Rapid Weaver worked really well for you and I think more importantly, obviously since I鈥檓 I have an 黑料门 shirt on right now, is that you found 黑料门 and I know that we built a plugin around that time. What is that done for you as far as where you were before, what extra features and functionality were able to gain by switching over to 黑料门? This is not to bash on the other cart. I in no way want to bash anybody else, I just want to find out what you gained for you and your business.

Billy: Yes. Totally. It鈥檚 been pretty much everything. (laughing) With finding 黑料门 and then also listening to the podcasts, I鈥檓 realizing all the stuff that I can add, that I can incorporate without me having to do any work. I knew that I needed to do more, like Google Adwords and stuff. And I tried to do that on my own. And that was just so hard to do and try to set it up. And it just got really frustrating. And when I realized 黑料门 have had all the built-in connections, with like doing the Google Shopping and all the other third-party apps, I realized, okay, this is great. These are the things that I wanted to do. I didn鈥檛 have the time to do them. I could spend a week trying to figure it out just to even set these things up. Being able to do that kind of things through 黑料门 has been super helpful because it鈥檚 just me running this business. I didn鈥檛 have somebody else I can say, you know, go look, go check this out, figure out how to set this up. It was just me and all I really had to do was turn a switch, and my information, all the photos, all the descriptions, everything is already in there that I have had already put it through 黑料门. So I didn鈥檛 really have to do anything else. And that鈥檚 made a huge difference for me with the business.

Jesse: All right. So you鈥檙e making some more money now getting some more traffic in sales. That鈥檚 the goal here.

Billy: Yes, definitely. Yeah. And as I listen to the podcast, I鈥檓 learning what those different ways are because before that I didn鈥檛 really know. I didn鈥檛 do any business school or anything. I鈥檓 just figuring out as I go and I hear something and then you guys talk about something on a podcast. I鈥檓 like, wow, that鈥檚 really interesting. And then I can sort of hook it up in 黑料门, get a free month and figure out what it is, and incorporate it. Yeah, it鈥檚 been very helpful.

Richard: It鈥檚 been interesting as we do this, there鈥檚 been a common theme, and I鈥檓 hearing it again today. We had a podcast last week and I keep hearing the ones that are successful are the ones that first just start, right? You have to start with something and you don鈥檛 know all the answers. And so it helps that pretty much everything is really easy to do. And if you don鈥檛 know how to do it, using 黑料门 chat or reaching out via email to support is actually seems to move people forward really quickly. And also that a successful business owner is a creator and they realize it鈥檚 gonna take iterations and it鈥檚 gonna take changes and you鈥檙e gonna run into things where if you just give up, then who knows what could have been. Right? But not only have you got to this point, but now you were saying earlier because of now you can take all this stuff online, you鈥檙e actually gonna be taken a road trip. What鈥檚 that? What鈥檚 that all about?

Billy: Yeah, we talked about it a little bit a couple of years, and we just we wanted to hit the road, see the United States, travel in an RV for a year, and our kids are seven and ten. And we figured, we have to do it sooner than later because they鈥檒l get too old. My wife is in grad school, and she was gonna finish, she鈥檚 finishing this summer. And we were going to actually do it next year. But she thought, she鈥檒l get into the workforce and then it makes it even harder. So we thought, ok, we鈥檙e gonna do it this summer. Take off for a year, travel around the US and I think we sort of finalized it last summer or early last summer. And at that point, I鈥檓 like, wow, ok. Now I need to figure out how can we do this, and how can I keep this business going? Coming back to using 黑料门, that was part of that plan. Part of being able for us to do it was to have this software, which at the time I didn鈥檛 realize. But I can do all these things. I can do it with the app on the phone, I can basically run the business with 黑料门 ship station on my phone, I can do all the things I need to do.

Richard: Oh, nice. So you鈥檙e actually going to be using ship station. You鈥檙e not gonna have a bunch of triangles under storage. (laughing)

Billy: That was another part of it. I originally was going to have a fulfillment center here in Seattle to take care of it because to ship from local. And since I鈥檓 not a huge company, the bigger fulfillment companies wouldn鈥檛 handle me because they send out so many things, but I found a smaller business who was willing to do it. And then I went in and talk with them. We chatted about it. I heard back from them maybe a couple of weeks later that after twenty years they decided to shut that aspect of their business down. I was like, oh wow, now what am I gonna do? Am I going to haul them all with me? That that would just be impossible. Because we could be, I don鈥檛 know, at the Grand Canyon for a week without an internet connection. I actually had found my neighbor. I said, Do you wanna ship my products for me for a whole year? She鈥檚 like yes, of course. I have my neighbor, she鈥檚 gonna come over and I鈥檓 now in the middle of making enough products for the whole year. Actually, I was planning for a year and a half. My original products, the products I have a company back East that I wholesale to, so enough for them as well. And then my newer product, the grover pro miller machine that goes that鈥檚 part of the grove percussion and back East, I鈥檓 making enough for them as well. So right now I鈥檓 just cranking out machines, so everybody can have them, so they can all ship them out. So I don鈥檛 have to think about anything really on the road, just sort of monitor stuff and make sure that everything is running smoothly.

Jesse: That鈥檚 perfect. Put together this is almost like a one year plan now. In order to set the plan in place, to be able to go for a year and I even heard a year and a half maybe. First of all, that鈥檚 awesome. I鈥檓 excited and jealous, I got three little ones myself. I don鈥檛 know if I could take all three of mine. (laughing) Maybe I鈥檓 not jealous, I don鈥檛 know.

Billy: You need a bigger RV. (laughing)

Jesse: Okay, yeah. But I think what a great opportunity to travel around your family and when they get into high school, maybe they don鈥檛 wanna go on that trip or there are other things that they have, sports or whatever. It just becomes harder. I know, so I think that鈥檚 the right timing. So you鈥檙e setting everything up, you get in the fulfillment set up. A ship station is actually great for fulfillment and getting all the labels printed correctly and I know you can do a lot more with it. That鈥檚 a great app that I know you鈥檙e pumped about. What else I can ask about that, now you have a few more months to pump up some sales a little bit. What do you think you鈥檙e missing? What can we help you with?

Billy: Well, I did just start the Google Shopping and I鈥檓 actually starting to see results from that which has been great and then also the retargeting just started. One of the problems I鈥檓 having at the retargeting is and I鈥檓 actually just gonna bring it up so I can look at it. I don鈥檛 really understand鈥�

Jesse: You doing retargeting, is this through Facebook or through Google or both?

Billy: Well, it鈥檚 both because it鈥檚 through clicking. They鈥檙e doing both. And clicking, by the way, is awesome. Their customer support has been amazing. Through my Facebook retargeting everything is great. But apparently, through my Google retargeting, I don鈥檛 have enough, I don鈥檛 really understand it, but I don鈥檛 have enough customers coming through Google, so they can鈥檛 even set up the retargeting aspect of it right now.

Jesse: Usually, for privacy reasons and such, they usually need five hundred visitors on a page in a certain time frame. I鈥檓 gonna guess that鈥檚 probably thirty days. Don鈥檛 quote me on that, but the reason is that if they only had one or two visitors, ads might be kind of creepy, like, hey, Billy looks like you鈥檙e on our page. But if it鈥檚 five hundred people, they assume that鈥檚 enough. That becomes anonymous for tracking. So there are five hundred visitors on a product or whatever page you want to retarget it. Thats probably the issue, but I imagine there are times where you hit over five hundred so that鈥檒l they鈥檒l turn on or we鈥檝e got to get you over five hundred. (laughing)

Billy: I don鈥檛 think I鈥檝e hit it yet. Because I even sent that. So that app through ROI Hunter. And I and I鈥檝e talked to them and the guy basically said鈥� oh, I just got a new order, a new 黑料门 order. (laughing)

Jesse: All right. There鈥檚 a dollar sign there.

Richard: Ring that bell! Bring the triangle.

Billy: I just lost my thought.

Jesse: All right, I did like Richie鈥檚 bring the triangle comment though. I think if there was a little triangle that rang every time you got an order that would be awesome. That would be pretty funny.

Billy: You just did that the background. I don鈥檛 have enough people for that.

Jesse: It鈥檚 a good thing you gotta set up. If and when you ever do hit that, it鈥檚 called dynamic product ads. It鈥檚 dynamic retarding, there are several different names, but that is a great thing to have set up so that people get their鈥� that鈥檚 automatically gonna be targeting. It鈥檚 a good thing you got that set up. Probably some things we could do to help get you some more traffic. Actually, we can talk, but real quick on I noticed on your website you have all these setups. So you have a picture of鈥� what are the musicals?

Richard: Head it up too, you head it up there. It was funny because I had made up Mary Poppins and then I saw you had Mary Poppins, and I was like, oh, wow, cool.

Billy: Right now at the top there鈥檚 some from the Broadway production of Mama Mia and some Mary Poppins and stuff and different shows. On my website, I also have this section, that is mainly just setup shots which is setup shots of different musical theater percussion and drum setups from guys all over the world. And people will use it as a resource, that center during the production of Mamma Mia and they鈥檒l come and they can search for Mamma Mia, and look at how the drummer set up and also look at how the percussion set up and get ideas as what they did, and how they did it and maybe steal some things from this one guy. Sometimes for light shows like this, there might be six or seven different setups on the site so people can see how everybody did it. The interesting thing is drummers practice percussions even if it鈥檚 the same show. They鈥檙e going to all set up a completely different, they have different ways of where they put their symbols their drums or whatever their percussion is. It鈥檚 interesting to see how people have decided to set up their stuff for that particular show. That鈥檚 what that is.

Jesse: That鈥檚 a great source of what鈥檚 called semi-free traffic to your site. People will search for that and then, of course, that happens to be a million machine, they鈥檙e hooked up, the fish resemble. There鈥檚 a fine line of being too pushy, but that鈥檚 a good source of traffic.

Billy: It鈥檚 not a criteria though. You don鈥檛 have to have a drummer machine in your setup to be on the setup shots. I鈥檓 not trying to do any kind of hard sell with that, I just really enjoyed taking care of, putting these things out there, posting this. I really enjoyed that.

Richard: Plus, that鈥檚 good just edify your industry and people doing good work. If you start sharing via social as well, that鈥檚 a good way of drawing attention to it. Who knows, not to go to deep on it, but you might give them an affiliate it for selling Broadway tickets one day.

Billy: And what you said, Richard, was also about I do need to get these up on social media. I don鈥檛 do that really at all right now but I think that would be a good way to get for them to be exposed because if you don鈥檛 go to the site, there isn鈥檛 that much exposure of these things. I鈥檓 going to figure out a way to do that as well.

Jesse: Now you have this cross country trip, you鈥檙e gonna be visiting. I imagine it鈥檚 kind of a click the drummers for orchestra on Broadway shows, right? Like you鈥檙e gonna be visiting other cities.

Billy: Yeah, definitely, I鈥檒l put the word out but that cannot be in your town. I must come to your setup. I want to take photos and put it up on the website or see your show. Yeah, I鈥檓 looking forward to that, to be able to see, because a lot of people that bought the machine, so I I know them, I mean through Facebook or email. It would be great to actually meet, see them face to face.

Jesse: I think that鈥檚 a great opportunity to take those pictures and like hey, here鈥檚 the drummer for this show and it鈥檚 all smiles and thumbs up and waving at the camera and that鈥檚 great. People will be interested in that particularly in your market. Me and Rich gonna follow you and give you a little heart on every one of those. I don鈥檛 know. Maybe not. (laughing)

Billy: You know better.

Jesse: Okay, alright, talked me into it.

Richard: I鈥檓 a musician, I鈥檒l follow you.

Jesse: You do that and then the occasional shot of those would be: all right, here鈥檚 the setup and then, oh just so happens there鈥檚 a little triangle machine right here and now you have the opportunity for the shoppable posts. That鈥檚 what I think I did a little intro to our podcast. I want to mention that you鈥檒l get your Facebook product catalog into your Facebook Business Manager which I think it already is if you use an ROI hunter, so once you have that done you can now take that in the in those posts and you then it鈥檚 mostly fun. Mostly hey, here鈥檚 a setup shot. Here鈥檚 us having fun at another city. But then occasionally you鈥檙e getting a little bit of marketing in there too, you gotta fund this trip, right? These things don鈥檛 run on solar yet.

Richard: Sponsored by the Miller machine.

Jesse: We鈥檒l get some 黑料门 stickers on the back. We鈥檒l get this sponsored somehow.

Richard: And definitely be taking pictures of the venues as well. You鈥檙e going to the ancillary benefits and some of the biggest benefits. I know that鈥檚 a strange sentence, but it鈥檚 gonna be how much your children get to learn about. Automation is cool and yes all these sales at school, but it鈥檚 about relationships and you鈥檙e building the relationships with these fellow percussionists on the road and the venues. Without even trying it鈥檚 gonna add more sales to your business just by you, can tell you鈥檙e a good guy. You wanna take your kids on the road and explore and adventure and teach them about other things than just two cities across the United States. Definitely take as many pictures as you can whether you post them right then or not. Be dependent upon how adventurous your travelers at the time. It鈥檚 a lot better to have those photos and post them at a later date than it is to not have the photos.

Jesse: You鈥檙e gonna have a lot of windshield time here too. I think maybe the wife drives for a couple of hours and you get the thumbs going on Instagram and on Facebook and posts and photos and sharing the adventure, but it鈥檚 also Miller machines on the road and it鈥檚 gonna be very interesting content.

Richard: Or put the kids to work. (laughing)
Jesse: There you go. Ten years old, that鈥檚 old enough. Another might be more social savvy.

Richard: Than you might want them to be. (laughing)

Jesse: Get them on Tick Tock. I think that鈥檚 where the kids are on now.

Billy: I don鈥檛 know anything about that.

Jesse: Me neither. Really. Obviously, I don鈥檛 know.

Richard: He saw it in a blog post.

Jesse: Yeah. I鈥檝e heard that鈥檚 what the kids are doing. But I don鈥檛 know if we can do shoppable posts on Tick Tock yet. I don鈥檛 know.

Billy: If 黑料门 can figure it out, then it鈥檒l happen.

Jesse: All right, I鈥檒l talk to a product, will see what we can do for Tick Tock here. That鈥檚 great. I鈥檓 pumped about this trip you guys have coming up. I鈥檓 actually glad that we got to meet our first super fan for the cast as well.

Billy: I imagine lots of other people are listening to the podcast, they have to be because if you鈥檙e on Ecwi, it鈥檚 very helpful to listen to all that stuff.

Jesse: Well, they should be. (laughing)

Richard: We鈥檒l make a clip out of that and put it on Instagram for you. That鈥檚 one of the hardest parts about podcasting. And we鈥檒l put that out to any other podcast, excuse me, podcast listeners that enjoy the show. If you have a desire to get on the show or you just want to let us know that you like what鈥檚 going on or you want to cover a particular thing. You can go to 黑料门.com/blog/podcast and go to the bottom of the form and fill out a form. Is that actually what you did too, Billy? I can鈥檛 remember where it was.

Billy: Yeah, exactly. It was on one of the podcasts, and I was like, oh, I should do that.

Jesse: Alright, so all these little times when we tell people to go rate and review and go to 黑料门.com/blog/podcast you did it. We鈥檙e not wasting our breath here. That鈥檚 good.

Billy: And here I am talking to you guys. I mean, come on.

Jesse: That鈥檚 awesome. And we鈥檙e gonna spread the word about the Miller machines and putting gas in your RV the rest of, for the next year and a half. So awesome. Well, now when you鈥檙e on this journey for the next year is there one place in particular that people could follow the journey or you know where would you want people to go to to find out more about you in the business?

Billy: Probably my Facebook page would be the best one. It鈥檚 at the . I have an , but I haven鈥檛 done a lot with that yet. I plan to. I guess the website. I mean the setup shots will probably sort of reflect where we are as well. There鈥檚 setup shots from around the country, but probably just Facebook.

Jesse: Okay, Facebook and also because I was at social media marketing world, the conference, I鈥檓 gonna encourage you to build your Instagram profile. Instagram is the action right now. Consider that a nudge push, whatever it takes.

Billy: That鈥檚 perfect for me that鈥檚 the thing is you know because especially if I use the setup shots with it because it鈥檚 all very image based and that鈥檚 one of the things I鈥檓 looking forward to on the trip is to devote more time to that, to do stuff on Instagram.

Jesse: Yeah, yeah. Definitely should get your selfie arm ready. Do some work out,you gotta hold that phone out as far as you can, click the video and do a lot of fifteen-second videos. I don鈥檛 know what else to say, you just you have to do it.

Billy: You鈥檙e talking about for the stories, right?

Jesse: Yeah, for the stories.. So there are little short little videos for Instagram, I think will be very powerful. For you especially as you鈥檙e it鈥檚 a year-long trip. You get to do that in every city that you want to. So yeah, awesome. Well, Rich, any last questions here?

Richard: No, I would I just want to say congratulations, mostly on getting started and not letting anything stop. You continue to create and iterate and automate and whatever it takes to get your business going. And also as two dads here, thanks for including your family and not making it only be about the business, but not leaving the business behind. It鈥檚 a beautiful mix and we appreciate it.

Billy: Yeah, great. Yeah. It鈥檚 not easy but I enjoy it.

Jesse: That鈥檚 great to hear. Safe travels, Billy, great talking with you.

Billy: Thank you.