黑料门

Today鈥檚 guest is Traci Reuter, founder/CEO of Divine Social, and co-host of The Social Media Marketing Happy Hour podcast.

Divine Social has a passion for supporting businesses in growing their brands through authentic, meaningful social advertising.

Traci has an uncanny gift for looking at any business鈥檚 mission, vision, and message, and mapping out the right strategy to get their brand in front of the right people at the right time.

With 25 years of experience in sales and marketing, Traci knows her stuff when it comes to high-level marketing strategy.

Combined with her tactical knowledge of social advertising, Traci can write the recipe for any brand鈥檚 success, and she鈥檚 here today to share some of her greatest secrets behind mapping out your own powerful social advertising strategy.

Show Notes:

• Find out why it鈥檚 time to double down on advertising
• Learn why Traci believes there are three main types of videos you should be creating
• Learn how you should be putting most of your effort into one of those videos

Transcript

Jesse: Happy Friday, Richie!

Richard: Happy Friday, Jess. They fly by.

Jesse: They sure do. It鈥檚 another social distancing e-commerce. Happy hour, I guess. The reason I mention the happy hour, actually, I was jumping ahead here because we always talk about the idea this show is that if we were at happy hour talking to other entrepreneurs about e-commerce and about strategy, that鈥檚 what we like to do. So that鈥檚 why I鈥檓 pumped about today鈥檚 show.

Richard: Because we actually have another fellow podcaster here with us today. It is going to be good. Plus, she really likes getting into the strategy and the psychology of it, and we sometimes get a little lost in tactics. So that鈥檚 going to be interesting to get to learn from her today.

Jesse: Yeah, so for people out there listening, if you鈥檙e ready for some social media strategy, just e-commerce strategy in general, let鈥檚 bring in our guest. Today鈥檚 guest is Traci Reuter, the founder, and CEO of Divine Social. And also, I hinted at it, the co-host of the social media marketing Happy Hour podcast. Traci, how are you doing?

Traci: Great. Thanks for having me.

Jesse: Of course. Yeah. And it is Friday, it鈥檚 happy hour day a little early on the West Coast, but yeah.

Traci: I鈥檓 on the East Coast, it鈥檚 pretty darn close to happy hour right now.

Richard: I listen to your show; I sometimes wonder if happy hour is going on any time.

Traci: Well, just as a side note, we have only ever been live at an actual happy hour one time. And then another time, we actually did drink quite a bit of wine. But that鈥檚 it for the entire four hundred episodes. They鈥檝e all been with water or smoothies or something healthy.

Richard: That鈥檚 good. All right. So we won鈥檛 get lost down the rabbit hole for people that are trying to figure out what they鈥檙e talking about. So one of the things. A lot of 黑料门 customers are just getting started. Now, we have plenty that are making thousands, hundreds of thousands, and some of that are even into the millions. But what we鈥檇 really love to learn from you is just maybe the way they should be looking at social in general. And then we鈥檒l get into how that can turn into ads, but just how they should be thinking about their customers and the customer journey.

Traci: Yeah, yeah. I love talking about that. I co-host the social media marketing Happy Hour, but my agency is actually paid social. So we focus on paid ads and all the different social platforms, the biggest, of course, being Facebook and Instagram. And some days we wish that wasn鈥檛 the case, especially lately. I think every day, my whole team feels like Facebook hates us, but it鈥檚 not entirely true. We鈥檙e just a little bit dramatic. So it鈥檚 hard when you鈥檙e in marketing, and you鈥檙e trying to make a living on some of these platforms, especially right now.

But the conversation always comes up like how does social play into paid social, and how does it all work, and does it matter? And if we鈥檙e going to talk about Facebook, specifically Facebook and Instagram, it absolutely does matter. And I鈥檝e done several videos on our YouTube channel talking about being a good social citizen and how that plays into your actual ad success. I mean, we can talk about that because being a good social citizen does play into the customer journey.

It鈥檚 about providing value, putting out content that people really care about, showing up on a regular basis, like just being even if you鈥檙e a company, being a good human, being human, and using social media. That way, it actually really will impact the success of your ads when you really want to start scaling them.

Richard: Yeah, I love that you say it like that, like being a good human. Because sometimes, when people mention, like add value, it鈥檚 sometimes hard to get your mind around. What does that actually mean? Does that mean I鈥檓 supposed to be sitting there with a whiteboard and like, OK, here鈥檚 how you use it. Do you know what I mean? Like you鈥檙e a teacher adding all this immense value where sometimes adding value is just, wow, there鈥檚 other good people out there doing good things.

Traci: Or making somebody laugh. I think about one of our biggest clients. We were just getting ready to launch TikTok ads for them. And they鈥檝e been having really great organic success with TikTok. They鈥檙e an e-commerce brand in the arts and crafts space. So, like, if you walk into Michael鈥檚 or Hobby Lobby, you鈥檙e going to see them. And one of their best videos they have on their TikTok feed is just hilarious. It鈥檚 just funny. It鈥檚 not a product demonstration. They鈥檙e not selling anything. It鈥檚 just really, really funny.

And sometimes we have to know that it鈥檚 OK. Like not every single post. Now it鈥檚 different. We鈥檙e talking about putting money behind it. Right. But every single organic post doesn鈥檛 have to be like you don鈥檛 hit a home run with it. You don鈥檛 have to, like, try to get an Academy Award with a repost you put out. You just have to be human sometimes. The other day I got stuck watching it because it just cracked me up. And sometimes we just need that. More than ever, right now.

Jesse: Yeah. Now, that鈥檚 great. That鈥檚 good. It sounds like a low bar. Just be human, right. Like, be a good human. OK, yeah. And now you鈥檙e on social media, and everybody has a social media profile of their own. What do you want to share? Yeah, there鈥檚 the baby pictures and stuff like that. But like we share good things and make people laugh, be who you are, and that鈥檚 a good place to start. If you鈥檙e listening, do some good stuff out there.

Traci: And part of the reason I say that is because there are a lot of people that we鈥檙e all entrepreneurs, we鈥檙e all business owners. We are not running nonprofits. I think we can all agree we鈥檙e here to make a profit. We have to be profitable. I have a client. I love this. Their philosophy in their company. They call them the triple bottom line.

The first one is to make an impact. It鈥檚 how many people can they reach and impact with their message? They actually sell books there. They do have books. So they鈥檙e not traditional e-commerce, but they have e-commerce as well as info products. Number one bottom line is, how many people can we impact? Number two is what鈥檚 our profit? How profitable can we be? And number three, which I love, this is how shiny are the eyes of our team. Basically, what that means is if they impact people and they make a profit and everybody around them is burnt out and run into the ground, they鈥檙e not successful.

A lot of times, we go into our marketing, so much pressure to win and succeed and to be profitable that we almost become a little manipulative in our social post because we鈥檙e trying to squeeze out as much juice. Every lemon is possible. And if we could just take a deep breath and keep that first, let鈥檚 just show up as a good human. That鈥檚 actually one of the things, qualifying points, to work with us is you have to be a good human, or we pass because there鈥檚 a lot of that.

We saw that these last several months with what鈥檚 happened in the world with people like all of a sudden are running funnels for hand sanitizer. It鈥檚 just stupid. Like you could argue with me that you were trying to serve the greater good. But let鈥檚 be honest. Like, we were just trying to make a buck, right? Not that there鈥檚 anything wrong with it. We all want to make money. We just want to show up well.

Richard: Well, especially right now in the direct to the consumer world, you can do things. We鈥檝e talked about Amazon on this show, and I know you know about Amazon as well. And why not be in all places if you can, like, be in front of your customers as many times as you possibly can. But we want to do and be what gigantic corporations are afraid to do.

We can actually be human beings. We don鈥檛 have to be this big corporation behind the board. And so being human to making people laugh, they don鈥檛 have to be afraid of that stuff. Not only will it make them appear more human to other people, but we need laughs right now. There鈥檚 a lot going on that people are feeling them, feeling human, makes them connect, and makes them want to be with you even more.

Traci: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And the storytelling. Now is the best time ever to start telling stories. You know, Amazon can鈥檛 tell that story. They can鈥檛 tell those things. I am fully guilty, I鈥檝e got my account that鈥檚 hot and on fire on a regular basis. Every day I鈥檓 like, gosh, I got to stop. I got to break that habit. Amazon, I鈥檝e worked with so many businesses that build their entire company on Amazon, and they don鈥檛 own the customer relationship.

If you don鈥檛 own the customer relationship, you don鈥檛 own the customer journey. You can鈥檛 control it. You can鈥檛 guide it. You can鈥檛 direct it. You can鈥檛 be a good human in it. I鈥檓 constantly trying to be mindful, and I鈥檓 starting to do this. It took this virus to make me do this where I stop and go. Let me go find a website. Let me go see if I can buy direct from their website and stop this madness.

Richard: Someone鈥檚 sitting there right now, and they鈥檙e starting their e-commerce store, and they鈥檙e listening to the 黑料门 E-Commerce Show, and they say, well, this sounds great, I will just be a good human, make people laugh. What鈥檚 the strategy like? When they break out their whiteboard, and they somewhat think out as a group, what is our social media strategy, and how does paid relate to organic? How should they be thinking?

Traci: Yeah, it鈥檚 a great question. So the first thing is, I think we鈥檙e alluding to it is to start by building your store. I can鈥檛 stress that enough. Start by building your own store and really resist the temptation to get that easy traffic from some of these. I mean, we could do a whole show on that. Right. So the strategy, here鈥檚 how we break it out. And this is actually the methodology we鈥檝e been using for the last five years, and I call it the three pillars to successful social ads. But it can apply to organic social. It can apply to most of your marketing. You could probably even apply it. It鈥檇 be a little harder to do it to email marketing, but to social and to paid social.

It鈥檚 essentially three pillars or three buckets. You always want to be thinking about growing your audience. So audience building is number one. Number two is going to be engagement. And number three is going to be conversions. And it鈥檚 important to understand that conversions are number three for a reason. When we operate, we don鈥檛 operate from that perspective of I want to be a good human. I want to add value. I want to show up with transparency. I want storytelling. I want my brand to have a personality. If we don鈥檛 start from that point, we tend to start straight at that conversion piece. So all of our social organic posts buy my stuff, buy my stuff, buy my stuff. In our ads, we only show up to buy my stuff like there鈥檚 nothing else. If you think of those three buckets, audience building, engagement, and conversions, those three together, when if you think of it, the sweet spot is in the middle.

So the first one is audience building. So audience building is going to be a lot. Audience building is really important. This is if you look at the customer journey, so just google customer journey, you can see everything. It typically starts at awareness and ends at advocacy. Somebody who鈥檚 like a raving fan of yours. Well, in order to even start a customer journey, like there鈥檚 actually a point before, it鈥檚 like when people are unaware, completely, and utterly unaware, they鈥檙e not in your ecosystem at all.

So your social ads, your social posts, you want to have some that are very specifically designed to bring new people into your ecosystem. Use the analogy of a campfire. If you鈥檙e not stoking the fire, if you鈥檙e not putting wood on the fire, the fire is going to go out. And so audience building is incredibly, incredibly important. And most people overlook that, especially when it comes to paid social. It鈥檚 very much overlooked on the social side, but it鈥檚 crucial. But that鈥檚 getting new video viewers, getting new fans on your page, getting new people to engage with your stuff. That鈥檚 audience building is very, very important.

Jesse: The way you look at it from a strategy-wise is, OK, you have a store, but you鈥檙e thinking kind of Facebook and Instagram first. Right. So the audience can be in a lot of places. But you鈥檙e specifically talking about like. Yeah, start posting on your Facebook page on your Instagram, which whichever works better.

Traci: Start showing up, start putting some information out, show some behind the scenes, show some history behind the company. You show what makes you different, what鈥檚 your unique selling proposition. Start showing that Facebook and Instagram, and I get asked this question all the time. Should we go somewhere else? Should we jump ship to YouTube ads? And the answer is depending on how big you are; if you鈥檙e just getting started, start with Facebook and Instagram. The world is still there. I don鈥檛 care how many times Mark Zuckerberg bumps his head when he wakes up in the morning; it doesn鈥檛 matter. It鈥檚 still the best place from an e-commerce standpoint to build a brand.

Once you start getting into scaling, then depending upon what you鈥檙e doing, we want to start talking about some other platforms, but Facebook and Instagram. So start posting. From a paid social standpoint, a lot of newbies are not going to think to do this. But one way to do really good audience building on the cheap, if you will, is to have a video ad, to have a video ad where you鈥檙e testing out your targeting. You鈥檙e trying to find the sweet spot of your audiences where it鈥檚 really designed not necessarily to sell but to basically introduce what you do to some new people. And that鈥檚 a way to start the audience building. And I like to go down the rabbit trail. I think the secret to a lot of our client successes, especially the ones that we鈥檝e scaled from small to really big, has been the investment in audience building, which is very, very counterintuitive for a lot of people.

Richard: Everyone鈥檚 trying to sell things, so I鈥檇 imagine so. I have a question for you relating to that. So even though you鈥檙e trying to build a new audience, the metrics that you鈥檙e going for on Facebook. So are you basically referring to when you would go for video views as opposed to going for conversions on your website when you place that ad?

Traci: If I have a limited budget, I鈥檓 just getting started, and I鈥檝e got this great video that we鈥檝e produced to introduce people to what we鈥檙e doing. I鈥檓 probably going to run it as a video of the campaign. Every objective in the Facebook platform, it is basically asking Facebook, hey, put this ad in front of people who are going to do this specific thing. So a conversion campaign is like putting this in front of people who are going to buy for me. A video of you is put in front of people who are going to watch this video.

There are two very different things. And asking somebody to buy before they know anything about you unless you have a very impulse type product, you鈥檙e going to start paying a really expensive cost per conversion. Facebook is a place for discovery. It鈥檚 not a place for intent. If you want to go intent-based, go over to Google and do that over there. So you鈥檇 run this video, you鈥檇 run it as a video of your campaign. And essentially, your goal is to get as many eyeballs as possible watching your video, because now what you鈥檙e doing, you鈥檙e getting cheaper, you鈥檙e getting cheap video views, and you can start building audiences of people who consumed your video, and you can retarget them with a conversion campaign you don鈥檛 want to. Most people don鈥檛 propose marriage on the first date. And yet we do that as marketers. We do it as e-commerce business owners. We do it all the time. And sometimes it鈥檚 good to test it. But it鈥檚 almost always more expensive if you go and you do it that way.

Jesse: Makes perfect sense. It does make sense. And I think we鈥檝e said that in different ways. And hopefully, people are listening like, all right, no, here鈥檚 somebody else that said it in a slightly different way. We didn鈥檛 set this up before the podcast. This is how you do it. You have an audience first, and it鈥檚 cheaper to build an audience than it is to get that sale. But obviously, of course, you want to sell. This is all a way to get the sale, but you need to build an audience first.

Traci: If you鈥檙e really bootstrapping it on a shoestring budget, you could take a couple of hundred bucks a month and put a video of your campaign together. While you鈥檙e trying to get your store straightened out, you鈥檙e trying to get out all the stuff that you need to do to have a good conversion experience. You could be building audiences in the background while you鈥檙e getting all that stuff together. Because so often I see people who are there waiting until everything鈥檚 perfect. And then by that point, they鈥檝e spent so much money, and they鈥檙e so desperate for a sale, and they have no audiences to put it in front of when they could have been using all that time. They can just slap up a good video, put five, 10, 15, 20 bucks a day on it, and they could have thousands of people that they could be retargeting to. So it鈥檚 a huge thing to do for sure.

Jesse: For sure. Now, when you say slap of a good video, are you talking like, for everybody out there listening, do they have to have a fancy camera? Or you can just pick up your phone and make a video, and how much are you editing it? And I鈥檓 saying this to try to get people to pick up their phone and make a video. Now, what do you need to do here to get this video going?

Traci: Money love speed. You can quote me on that one. Money, love, speed. And so don鈥檛 worry about being perfect. I think perfection sometimes in this business is the kiss of death, and overproduction can be the kiss of death. You know, people spot that sort of thing. It doesn鈥檛 blend into the news feed. We鈥檝e got some clients that have very highly produced videos that do amazing. And then there鈥檚 that one that they use their camera, and the lighting was just OK, but it crushed it. As a marketing professional, this is all we do; I can鈥檛 tell you how many times we think, oh, my gosh, this is going to be the best thing ever, and it isn鈥檛.

And you just don鈥檛 know what鈥檚 going to perform, and you鈥檙e better off, if you鈥檝e got a product that you鈥檙e selling, turn the camera on, tell a story about it. If you鈥檝e got a cool founder鈥檚 story, turn the camera on you, or have your kid or your neighbor or friend turn the camera on you. Just start telling the story. I mean, think about Shark Tank, right? Like that鈥檚 what people love so much about Shark Tank. It鈥檚 not just a negotiation. It鈥檚 the story.

People love the stories behind those entrepreneurs that come out that try to get funding. We don鈥檛 want to lose sight of that. We鈥檙e running content on a social platform. A lot of people don鈥檛 put money; they don鈥檛 put ad dollars behind that type of content because it鈥檚 not a conversion campaign. However, that鈥檚 a mistake because what you鈥檙e doing by putting some money behind it is you鈥檙e amplifying it, and amplifying content is the fastest way that I know to build audiences quickly.

That鈥檚 how every one of our clients, when we started running their ads almost five years ago, their max budget was like fifteen hundred dollars a month and today it鈥檚 five hundred thousand a month. And we spent the first probably three years really building audiences, building audiences, creating engagement. They were making money. They wouldn鈥檛 stick with us for that long if they weren鈥檛 making money, but it wasn鈥檛 to the degree that they are now.

Jesse: So it took some time.

Traci: Yeah, it took some time.

Richard: I love the idea of doing that while you鈥檙e building out your store, too, because it鈥檚 getting your voice out there. It鈥檚 like almost when Star Wars goes into a theater back when we used to go to theaters. It鈥檚 not like they just said it鈥檚 in there and go today. There鈥檙e wrapped buses, and there are billboards, and there鈥檝e been ads on TV, and they鈥檙e building this anticipation. Yeah, a lot, a long time.

I mean, sometimes a year prior to the launch. And a lot of people, even though I know this already, I keep sometimes forgetting that when you鈥檙e doing an ad, it doesn鈥檛 even matter. You can have one as your mom could only like your Facebook page. And it doesn鈥檛 matter because they鈥檙e not even there. It doesn鈥檛 mean don鈥檛 build that over time. Like, of course, you want to build that over time. Right. Because then you can retarget those people who like that page, and there are all kinds of different ways. So in these campaigns, after you do these and you鈥檙e just going for video views, do you then remarket to the people who watch those videos?

Traci: Oh, yeah. Yeah. The way we look at audience building is it鈥檚 a couple of things, right? So it鈥檚 new fans. Maybe we鈥檙e running depending upon your budget. You might be running a campaign to get legitimate fans. And the worst advice I鈥檝e ever heard, and I just have to say this is you don鈥檛 want to run campaigns to get fans into cheap countries just so you look good. Like that will actually hurt you. That will hurt you long term. So whenever you run a like campaign, you actually want to run it to people who would actually be fans of your business, like you want to run a legit campaign. So new likes are audience building. So that could be new Instagram followers. That could be new Facebook fans. Video views are audience building engagement, post engagements, people commenting, liking, sharing, that鈥檚 audience building, and then website traffic, people that click over.

Because sometimes, if you have a limited budget, you may still put on that video in the text, the copy of your ad. Put the link to your website so they can go. If they want to go find out more, they can. So those four things we constitute audience building. Any kind of ad that we can do that鈥檚 ballooning up, ballooning up. We call that level two traffic. Level one traffic is people that have never heard of you. That鈥檚 truly cold traffic. They don鈥檛 know who you are. They know nothing about you. That鈥檚 level one. We measure long-term success for our clients by the growth between level one to level two. And that鈥檚 just what I said. Video viewers, new fans posting, website traffic. If we鈥檙e constantly feeding that fire, we鈥檙e going to have an inferno down the road, which is what we all want.

Anything that falls into that category, we can then retarget, and sometimes we retarget it right into a conversion campaign. Sometimes the customer journey is longer depending upon the price of your product. And I think about a great e-com business, Chilipad. If you鈥檝e heard of Chilipad, it鈥檚 changed my life. A middle-aged woman gets hot at night when you sleep, so it鈥檚 nice to have something that can calm me down. And they鈥檙e amazing e-commerce, amazing e-commerce advertisers, but it鈥檚 an expensive product. And so there鈥檚 that stage in between that and audience building. And they鈥檙e not our client, although I wish they were.

But there鈥檚 a stage between audience building and conversions, and that鈥檚 the engagement piece. How do you keep somebody engaged with you when they鈥檙e not ready to buy it? And so often, we give up on, we think, our social post. It didn鈥檛 sell one hundred units. So it was a failure. No, not everybody is going to buy the first time they see it. In fact, it鈥檚 like two percent of all people buy the first time. I used to run a division of AT&T back in the day, pre-Facebook, and the sales team worked for me. And we had a rule we knew that people buy at 12:00, 12:00 midnight, 12:00 noon. If I meet you and it鈥檚 1:00 PM, and you鈥檙e not going to buy until twelve o鈥檆lock, what do I have to do to get you there? And it used to be like an average of seven touches to get somebody to buy.

Now it鈥檚 like the average adult gets hit with over four hundred marketing messages a day. So if you think that you鈥檙e going to convert somebody on the first try, that wasn鈥檛 possible twenty years ago or rarely possible twenty years ago. It sure as heck isn鈥檛 now. What we do is we actually build up advertising. Funnel is taking this whole customer journey based on the price of your product. Chilipad, the reason I brought that up is because they are an expensive product. People typically don鈥檛 buy right away, and so they do a masterful job of having engagement content along the way to keep. Oh yeah, remember, you want this, and you want this.

And, you know, they use testimonials, and they use all these different strategies to get somebody like me. Last year was like; I can鈥檛 take it anymore. And I finally bought it. It worked. Yeah, but it took months. It took months before I was willing to pay that because it was “who pays fifteen hundred dollars for a mattress pad?” I still think, if it wasn鈥檛 so amazing, I think I was nuts.

Jesse: So that makes sense. It鈥檚 a more expensive product. If it鈥檚 a 30 dollar product, you probably don鈥檛 need these multiple levels. They鈥檙e going to make their decision and move on with their day. But yeah, with a more expensive product, they get introduced. This is the second pillar of yours, the engagement. What type of videos or content is different from that first one? What is the difference between that type of content?

Traci: A lot of it鈥檚 going to depend on the size of a company that you are. So if we鈥檙e talking about a new startup, if you鈥檙e smaller, it鈥檚 probably going to be maybe part two to the first video. So maybe it鈥檚 a follow-up. A lot of times, that first level audience building video, it鈥檚 often going to do double duty. It鈥檚 going to be audience building and engagement together because that鈥檚 just how it works. But a lot of times, if you have more budget, then probably your first video will be more brand, it鈥檒l be more introducing the brand positioning, the brand telling the brand story. And then the second video will be something that鈥檚 a little bit further down the process.

So now they鈥檝e met the brand. Now, it might be more problem-solving. It might be more talking about the unique selling proposition. It might be solving, hitting some pain points, and solving some problems. It鈥檚 moving them to that next step in the customer journey. I love how many people are getting into entrepreneurship these days. But most of us never studied business, and we don鈥檛 even know what the customer journey is. You don鈥檛 even know that there鈥檚 a consideration phase. You don鈥檛 even know that these things have it. And so you don鈥檛 even think about it when you鈥檙e creating your social strategy.

You鈥檙e just trying to get people to buy from you. So sometimes you have to slow down and really think, what does it look like for somebody that now is aware of my product, but they don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 going to solve their problem or they don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 going to meet their needs. What information would I want to tell them at a cocktail party or what I want to talk to them about if I could? To help them understand why they want to move to the next stage of the customer journey.

And that鈥檚 really a lot of time. That鈥檚 how we help our clients come up with what that content should look like. So it could be a video. We heavily, heavily do video ads, but sometimes do blog posts. We try to hit people in all the different areas. Some people like to listen; some people like to watch, some people like to read. And so we try to have a good mix if the budget permits it. If your budget doesn鈥檛 permit it, stick a video. It鈥檚 not going to let you down. Yeah.

Richard: So in that particular case, instead of going for video views, are you now switching the goal of that ad?

Traci: Yeah. Again, it鈥檚 going to vary, but a lot of times, we might want to now get a traffic campaign. We want them to click on the site; we want to get them on to our shop. We want to get them looking at some stuff, and we might switch it up. A lot of times we鈥檒l test it because sometimes we鈥檒l try to send people to the shop, but they鈥檙e not ready yet. It鈥檚 not really getting us the result we want. And so in that case, we might switch it back to a video view campaign because we want those people to watch more.

Sometimes we could do a reach campaign. So a reach campaign is essentially saying, Facebook, we want to reach as much of this audience as we can. And so maybe we鈥檙e not actually trying to; we already know they watch videos because they watch the first one. Now we want to make sure we get the message in front of them. We鈥檙e not so much concerned about whether they watch it again? We just want to remind them of who we are. So, you know, that鈥檚 where an agency like ours or having somebody in-house who really knows their stuff can start to experiment to see what鈥檚 going to move the needle at that stage because that鈥檚 really what we鈥檙e trying to do. We鈥檙e trying to guide them and lead them through that journey.

Jesse: Got it, and I get there鈥檚 not like the perfect answer for all scenarios. Yeah, “it depends” is always the answer in marketing, and I get it.

Traci: Think about what you want the person to do. I know ultimately we want them to buy, but sometimes that. We want them to buy, but sometimes your budget isn鈥檛 big enough, right? You鈥檝e got to have the 50 conversions for the algorithm to really learn. And if you鈥檙e not spending enough money, you鈥檙e not going to get that, and you鈥檙e not going to ever get the full power of the algorithm behind you.

So you kind of have to think like, what do I want these people to do? Knowing that some are going to buy. Like our client that I mentioned already, that we scaled to five hundred thousand over the last four years a month ad spend. We convert online campaigns for them. It鈥檚 crazy. So it can happen high up in the funnel, but sometimes it doesn鈥檛. And so you have a plan for that whole process.

Jesse: Now, we talked a little bit about audience, talked about engagement, I believe it was the second one. And now we鈥檝e been hinting at it. We do want to sell stuff. So how do you shift up the different campaigns you鈥檝e been working on? And again, it depends. But how do you get them to buy?

Traci: Yeah, well, I mean, the conversion campaign, that鈥檚 the fun, right. We all want to see the money come in, the cash register going. But this is now going to be way more product heavy. Typically, it鈥檚 OK at the beginning top of the funnel to have more storytelling. But as you get further down the funnel, you get further down the process. You really need to be your product, the hero. Sometimes we use video. Sometimes, we鈥檒l use a 15-second video if your product can be demonstrated. It depends on what your product is.

We ran traffic for a while for a supplement company, for a kid鈥檚 supplement company. And we did a lot with animated GIFs, showing no additives and non-GMO, using an animated gif to show the features of the product. Sometimes it鈥檚 just the product image itself, a good, clear, large product image, a lot of times in lifestyle situations. So it鈥檚 not just on the white product page. It is not something like that. Usually, at that point, most of the time, you are really targeting people who have been engaging with you at some point.

And so there鈥檚 got to be a compelling call to action for them. Whether you鈥檙e using a coupon code to get somebody on your email so you can get them their first offer, whatever it is at that point, the conversion campaign, that鈥檚 it is what it is. It鈥檚 conversion. And we can use all sorts of things. We can use all sorts of different creative assets. You can use dynamic product ads with your catalog. I mean, there鈥檚 so many different ways to do conversions. I don鈥檛 want to get too geeky because I will.

But it鈥檚 pretty simple. I mean, if you just really say, OK, look, I got three things I need to do. I need to build my audiences. I need to engage with them, and then I need to ask them to buy. And if you think that way, it鈥檚 going to dictate how you create content for your organic, and it鈥檚 going to really help you get the most out of your paid social. It鈥檚 huge.

Richard: Just real quick, I鈥檒l forget this one. A lot of people have said the algorithm, if you鈥檙e doing an organic post and then you have a link out to a website, they suppress that as opposed to if you don鈥檛 have the link, maybe you鈥檙e just talking about it in the video. One question is, do you see that to be true? Have you seen that from an organic standpoint?

Traci: I haven鈥檛 seen that they suppress it. I mean, let鈥檚 just be honest. Facebook wants you to keep people on Facebook, so they do reward that. I don鈥檛 know that they suppress that necessarily. We鈥檝e got clients that post links all the time.

Richard: Well, and the reason I鈥檓 asking that if you see it in organic is because no matter what, I could still imagine since they get paid for ads. Oh, they probably don鈥檛 care at all when it comes to the paid ad, or at least a lot less. Thinking that out, maybe you are just going for likes. If you have your logo or you have something in there, maybe they look it up, maybe they don鈥檛, or you鈥檙e just going for video views in the beginning. And then maybe you鈥檙e getting more engagement moving on. But when you鈥檙e going at least in, I can imagine any of those phases.

If you have your link to your website, you could still end up, like you said, getting a conversion, even though you鈥檙e not going for conversions. Yes, because of the links in there, they thought that video was funny, whatever, they click. And just to learn a little bit more about you. And who knows if it鈥檚 priced right and it鈥檚 something they need, they might just get it right away. But if you鈥檙e paying for it.

Traci: Yeah, put your link in. Absolutely. The bigger your budget gets, you鈥檙e going to want to test taking it in and taking it out, things like that at the beginning. Absolutely, the thing is, with your organic, if you鈥檙e relying on organic-only, this is the biggest challenge, and I鈥檝e been around for a while. There is a time where your business page would get a tremendous reach. You put up a post, and people would see it, but it鈥檚 very, very low.

Our client does a half-million dollars a month in ads, which is not the biggest e-commerce business out there by far. They have a seven percent engagement rate on their page, and that鈥檚 with over one point five million fans. So seven percent of one point five million people see an organic post from them. If they only relied on organic, they would never have the sales volume that they have. So that鈥檚 why I think it鈥檚 important to invest in social media as soon as you possibly can because you鈥檙e just going to accelerate your results, which is what you鈥檙e trying to do. You put all this money and effort, and time into building your store. It鈥檚 going to be a slow boat to get there if you just do it all organically.

Jesse: And seven percent is good.

Traci: It鈥檚 amazing! Yeah, I probably didn鈥檛 say that. Seven percent is mind-boggling. Amazing.

Jesse: I agree. You are downplayed now that is usually you鈥檙e looking at maybe one to two percent of people who follow you, like you, actually see these posts. So you do have to pay at the end of the day. Mark Zuckerberg, if you鈥檙e listening, we鈥檙e helping you out here. You do have to pay for social ads. That鈥檚 just the way it is. Yeah. Going back to you, you had these three phases, the third phase, the conversion part. The thing that strikes me is that that part is easy. If you鈥檝e done the initial steps like if you鈥檝e built the audience, which is probably the hardest part, you get them engaged.

And now the conversion part. The behind the scenes is all the different remarketing. You鈥檙e marketing to video watchers, people who visited the site. People who are followers. These are all options that are hidden in the Facebook Ads Manager. But the conversion part is the easy part. Here鈥檚 the product. Here鈥檚 a price. Maybe it鈥檚 a lifestyle shot. Maybe there鈥檚 a coupon. If you can afford the coupons, that鈥檚 to get them to buy. But that was easy. You did all the hard work ahead of time in the beginning.

Traci: It鈥檚 funny that when you鈥檙e just getting started, people always ask how they should manage their budget with this. Our big clients, the ones that got big budgets, they鈥檝e got a lot behind them. We鈥檙e running eighty percent of their budgets to audience building and engagement and 20 percent to conversions. And so often when we take over a client that鈥檚 been running ninety percent conversions and maybe 10 percent the other two, it鈥檚 usually bumpy, I鈥檓 not going to lie. And I always tell them, it鈥檚 going to be bumpy for a little bit. They don鈥檛 like that shift. They want the money coming in.

But once we flip that, we flip that, and we really start just pumping up the number of people coming into the ecosystem on a regular basis. That鈥檚 when we start to see the magic begin to happen. And it takes a little while. But 80/20 is how we do it, even for some of our smaller clients, if they can buy into our philosophy and hang in there with us. But that just goes to show that our methodology works, and most of our clients have been with us for three-plus years. So it really works.

Jesse: Yeah. The 80/20, I get it as I run the ads for 黑料门. Well, that鈥檚 tough because you really want to see these campaigns with these great cost per acquisition numbers at the end. But I can tell you that at 黑料门, on our Facebook advertising campaigns, there鈥檚 a lot of campaigns that are the first touch, the cold traffic, level one, whatever you want to call it, the numbers are not good at all.

Traci: Nor should they.

Jesse: They鈥檙e not going to be.

Traci: Yeah, we actually have key performance objectives for each stage of traffic. So the performance objective, the KPI on cold traffic, should not be conversions. We shouldn鈥檛 be judging success on that. And it鈥檚 hard when you鈥檙e small. It really, really is. And that鈥檚 the fun part for us. And we work with a business, a growing income business because we can start to educate them and help them understand what the KPIs are while they鈥檙e making a profit. And then they can start making big company decisions with smaller budgets and get to that big company that is faster.

Jesse: Yeah, look at the blended number; I guess we鈥檒l just remind everybody. Look at the blend.

Traci: And cash flow is an issue, right? You鈥檝e got to know your numbers. I can鈥檛 tell you how many income clients we work with. They don鈥檛 know their lifetime value. They don鈥檛 know their cost per acquisition. They don鈥檛 know, they just say, I want 3xROAS. And it鈥檚 like, OK, based on what? We want 3xROAS too. I want 3xROAS, and I want to be five foot ten and one hundred and five pounds. But based on what? I don鈥檛 mean to be disrespectful, but sometimes 3xROAS is the wrong metric to determine the success of your business on top of the funnel.

Richard: It brings me back to that marriage analogy in the beginning, even though you want the sale quote-unquote, let鈥檚 just say that; you don鈥檛 want to sell them on marrying you. You want them to want to marry you. Not like I鈥檓 going to twist your arm, you are going to marry me. No, you鈥檙e putting stuff out there like, wow, they鈥檙e a good person. Back to the human conversation. They鈥檙e funny. They care about people. They鈥檙e doing good things. Wow. That probably back to the way you鈥檙e talking about. The funnel is what leads to by the time you finally get to conversion; they already want you, they鈥檙e wondering why you haven鈥檛 asked already.

Traci: What are you waiting on? We like to say that we are the ad funnels that we鈥檙e architecting an intentional plan to get these people to fall in love with you. Like we are intentionally architecting this process so that these prospects fall in love with your brand because we鈥檙e not just trying to get one sale. We鈥檙e trying to get repeat sales. We鈥檙e trying to get cross-sell. We鈥檙e trying to get different categories that are in your store. Like we鈥檙e trying to take people from completely unaware to raving fans. I think maybe that鈥檚 the reason why we鈥檙e so big on this is; it comes back to my background running a sales division.

I鈥檝e got this unique position where I have a marketing degree, I run a marketing agency, but I have a sales background, and I know sales psychology and how it works. And so our clients that can have the intestinal fortitude, if you will, to like say, yeah, we鈥檙e going to do this, and we鈥檙e going to make this happen. We鈥檙e going to commit to this. We鈥檙e going to have a big picture view of our business, and they reap the rewards. We see it over and over again. And it鈥檚 fun. It鈥檚 really fun. I like talking strategy because tactics change, but the strategy doesn鈥檛.

Jesse: Very much so. And speaking of strategy, this podcast can probably be live in, say, mid-October. So everyone鈥檚 listening to this live. They鈥檙e like, yeah, it鈥檚 been October. Hopefully, Jessica鈥檚 right with this schedule. This 2020 online shopping season, there鈥檚 a lot of projections out there; this is going to be a big one. So for people out there listening, they already know about these three stages. What you know, what can we do to help kick start them? This is going to be a great year for e-commerce.

Traci: Yeah, it really is. I wish in a perfect world you were listening to this in September because I would say, crank up your audience building budget really, truly. And it鈥檚 not too late, like in October. It鈥檚 not too late to do that. But I would definitely say I would probably, our clients, if I look at how they have their budget, I鈥檇 say probably at least sixty percent of their full year鈥檚 budget gets spent in the final quarter. So keep in mind that it is going to be more competitive. It鈥檚 going to be more expensive. Things are changing this year.

I would definitely, if you can, if your budget is limited, I would definitely go hard in audience building right now. If you don鈥檛 have an audience-building campaign up, got one up. I think one of my favorite books, it鈥檚 a classic Stephen Covey鈥檚 Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, begin with the end in mind. What are you going to do? You have a holiday bundle already decided. Like, what are you selling? Like, what鈥檚 going to be your offer and then back up. OK, so that鈥檚 that鈥檚 where I want to send people to.

Then what do they need to know to get to that point, and what might they need to know before that? And what are they thinking in their lives or what鈥檚 happening that could make them want my solution or whatever the product is? That鈥檚 what you鈥檙e going to create your video around and get it up and put as much money as you possibly can, build audiences from those video viewers, and then retarget the heck out of them come holiday time. But that鈥檚 what I would do. I would go hard on audience building, audience building, and engagement.

And if your budget is limited, just utilize that video, that video campaign to do both. Right. It doesn鈥檛 have to be funny. Don鈥檛 try to be like the next Poo-Pourri or Squatty Potty, but educate, demonstrate, inform; those are important. Tell your story, tell those things, and put as much money as you possibly can. I would say, obviously, you have to make good decisions. You have to steward your company鈥檚 money well. But do more than you鈥檙e comfortable, I guess. I want to say, put it all on black, but that鈥檚 not fair. I would be wrong to tell you to do that but definitely do. I would do more than you鈥檙e comfortable. If you鈥檙e comfortable with putting five thousand dollars in, put six.

Jesse: Yeah, makes sense, I like the extra push here, and I鈥檓 with you a hundred percent. We鈥檝e talked to a lot of different people. People are gearing up. This is going to be a big year. People don鈥檛 want to go out and shop. They鈥檙e still going to be buying presents. They still need it. It鈥檚 still the holidays. So, be prepared. And yeah, ad prices were probably going to be a little expensive. You鈥檙e going to wish you had built this audience previously.

Traci: Yeah, well, let me just add. If you feel like, gosh, I just don鈥檛 have the money this year, it鈥檚 been a hard year for us. We鈥檝e been very fortunate. Most of our clients are in the creative spaces that we鈥檝e in. Our clients have thrived this year. But if you鈥檙e in a tough situation and you can鈥檛 do that, I just want to encourage you to get a plan to run ads. 24/7, 365. Because the biggest mistake that you can make is to not show up year-round, not be building that audience, not be engaging with them, and then suddenly show up in the fourth quarter every year asking people to buy from you. It鈥檚 not a good human.

It鈥檚 like, hey, I don鈥檛 care about any of you until I want to make money from you. We said at the beginning, none of us are nonprofit or ministry or whatever. We鈥檙e a business. Show up. And I think that鈥檚 really, really important. It breaks my heart when I see these e-commerce businesses that have huge budgets in the fourth quarter and then go radio silent for the next nine months because I think that鈥檚 a huge mistake. And if we could help them build that consistency throughout the year, they would see some of the growth that some of our other clients would have, and then you wouldn鈥檛 have the spikes that you probably are having with holiday sales.

Jesse: So, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Don鈥檛 launch your first advertising campaign on Black Friday.

Traci: Oh, my God, no. Not on Black Friday. Take your money, go to Vegas, do something different.

Jesse: Yeah, that鈥檚 the best way to advertise, but if you鈥檝e already been doing it. That鈥檚 another way of looking at it.

Traci: That鈥檚 a great point, Jesse.

Jesse: Yeah, awesome. Richie, we鈥檝e learned a lot here from Tracy. I hope everybody鈥檚 listening as well. Do you have any last questions here that you think where we鈥檙e missing? What else, what am I missing?

Richard: I don鈥檛 really know if this would be a question is more as a noticing what鈥檚 been going on in the world, the environment we鈥檙e in right now, learning from Traci right now, and making a statement and seeing if she agrees with the statement. And that is keeping in mind that a lot of the people that are listening to this show are just getting started. And it might even seem like a lot to say fifteen hundred bucks to some of these people, I would guess. And I鈥檓 wondering what your thoughts are on if while everyone else is going for conversions, don鈥檛 sweat it. There鈥檚 going to be so many people online this year. You鈥檙e just getting a start. You鈥檙e hearing this in October. Just keep going for the video views. There are more people online.

And if you鈥檙e funny, back to our comment a few minutes ago, put your link in there, and maybe even do something zig when everyone else is zagging and say, you know what, we鈥檙e just getting started. This is crazy in this world. Everything that鈥檚 going on, if you鈥檙e interested, take a look. Here we are. We鈥檙e trying to build it, and you know what I mean. Just like don鈥檛 overthink it too much. Just start doing the advertising and start at the top, be human, recognize what鈥檚 going on. Don鈥檛 be afraid to say what鈥檚 going on. Stand for something and put your link in there.

Traci: I would agree, that鈥檚 not bad advice at all. There鈥檚 a lot of pressure on e-commerce business owners to just make the fourth quarter everything. And especially as we hear how this is probably going to be a record-breaking e-commerce season, e-commerce is just going to continue to grow. This isn鈥檛 going to get any better. And what do they say? Like, when鈥檚 the best time to plant a tree, 50 years ago or today? So you haven鈥檛 been advertising if you haven鈥檛 been building audiences for the last six months of the last 12 months, don鈥檛 sweat it. Start now. And if this isn鈥檛 your year to go all-in with your ad budget, that鈥檚 OK. Build your audiences. If your store鈥檚 not perfected, if things aren鈥檛 where it needs to be, you鈥檙e going to roll out a whole new product line. Who cares? Get the videos going with a link to your store and really focus on taking that cold traffic and turning them into that level to move building out those audiences.

In our reporting to our clients, I have a specific tab that specifically shows the growth of level two traffic. How many people in this last week or this last month did we move from “Never heard about you” to “Engage with you on some level.” And if that number is growing, we know long term the health of the client鈥檚 business is going to be really strong. So just don鈥檛 put so much pressure on yourself. But if you鈥檙e a big company and you haven鈥檛 been putting as much in there as you need to shame on you, wake up, put some money in. Let鈥檚 make it a good season. Two different messages for two different people, I guess.

Jesse: Now, that鈥檚 perfect. Tracy, this has been great. Now for people listening, if they are interested in hearing more from you, if they鈥檇 like to work with you, how can they get in touch with you?

Traci: Yeah, so a couple of ways. I actually have a mini-course. I have a three pillars mini-course. It鈥檚 a video. I walk you through the three pillars, the audience building, the engagement, the conversions with some worksheets. You can get that on my website, our agency website. It鈥檚 DivineSocial.com/ecwid. So you鈥檒l go there, you can get that link there. And then if you want to talk some more, I鈥檒l do this for you because I know this audience, and we work with e-commerce all the time.

If you鈥檙e running three thousand dollars or more in ads and you want me to look at your stuff to see how you might shift to this three pillars strategy. I don鈥檛 want to look at it to give you the nitty-gritty on whether or not your bid is correct, but how your strategy should shift. If you鈥檙e running at least three thousand dollars or more. And I鈥檓 happy to start out for your audience, you guys, especially because Richie was a listener of my show. I鈥檓 happy to do it right. I鈥檒l do a fifteen-minute analysis. I鈥檒l go in. I鈥檒l walk you through where I think you can make some shifts. You can email my personal email, email me directly at tracy@DivineSocial.com. I guess that would apply if you wanted to hire us too or talk to us about hiring us; just email me directly. It鈥檚 the best way to do it.

Jesse: All right. Now we鈥檙e listening. You have to have your next steps. Get working on the cold audiences. If you want to talk to Traci, you know how to get hold of her. You know there鈥檚 the course. Richie, what else am I missing here?

Richard: That鈥檚 it. Ready to get to work.

Traci: Let鈥檚 do it.

Jesse: Exactly. It鈥檚 the holiday season 2020. We鈥檙e going to turn 2020 around. It has not been the best year, but the end of the year is going to be fantastic. All right. Thanks very much, Traci.

Traci: It鈥檚 great to be here.

Jesse: Thanks very much.